Pochi Calls Out Idol Corp

[The Proctor]

No, she learned she can harvest a bunch of money without doing jackshit by not fulfilling subathon goals. I ain't even mad at her, this shit is funny as fuck.

This isn't true. She was screwed over by Idol during her last subathons. She wasn't able to complete her goals because Idol froze all of her assets when she and many other talents declared an intention to leave the company after months of mismanagement. The others were willing to listen when Aviel began making promises to them without any substance. She stuck to her decision unless Idol showed tangible evidence of being able to fulfil the promises it was making to other talents. Idol's response was to take all her money and tell her to shut up and do nothing or else, which was why she made the public call-out, which got Aviel back to the negotiation table. Even so, she didn't get most of the money she was owed because Idol was a financial basket case. She's already explained most of this, and it's really tiring to see people trot out the same 'she lied and stole from people lol' argument when it's already been disproven.

 

[Brosnan Pierce Brosnan]

What about her pre-idol donothon though?

 

[CalciumAnimal]

This isn't true. She was screwed over by Idol during her last subathons. She wasn't able to complete her goals because Idol froze all of her assets when she and many other talents declared an intention to leave the company after months of mismanagement. The others were willing to listen when Aviel began making promises to them without any substance. She stuck to her decision unless Idol showed tangible evidence of being able to fulfil the promises it was making to other talents. Idol's response was to take all her money and tell her to shut up and do nothing or else, which was why she made the public call-out, which got Aviel back to the negotiation table. Even so, she didn't get most of the money she was owed because Idol was a financial basket case. She's already explained most of this, and it's really tiring to see people trot out the same 'she lied and stole from people lol' argument when it's already been disproven.

You might wanna back this up with tangible evidence because while you refer to events I know happened that is not how i remember any of them going down.

 

[The Proctor]

You might wanna back this up with tangible evidence because while you refer to events I know happened that is not how i remember any of them going down.

Man, I just went back through my receipts for like half an hour and I have no clue what is and isn't public. These events predate me going full Archivebro and aggressively saving everything I see, so I can't quickly find all the public posts not-Pochi/Fluffen made after she reappeared. I don't feel like getting accused of leaking stuff tonight, so you'll have to take a 'just trust me bro' until/unless Idol talents speak up.

This is the only part that I know for an absolute fact is public:

Pochi was recruited into Idol almost immediately after the first donothon people accuse her of running off with the money from. She made a public post about this on Twitter on her PL account explaining the situation. Her fans were very accepting of this being an opportunity she was better off taking and supported her decision to focus on going corporate over completing her remaining rewards. In her community Discord, there was a standing offer of refunds/private fulfilment where applicable for any goals she failed to complete before going on corpo-hiatus.

I know she made other public announcements about this after returning to regular streaming on her PL account. She's very much aware of the perception that she's a liar and a scammer, which is why she intends to deliver promptly this time to re-establish a positive record with outsiders who aren't familiar with the circumstances surrounding her time at Idol Corp.

At the end of the day, if it comes down to a he-said-she-said scenario; who would you prefer to believe? A Jew who has a very long track record of making false or exaggerated promises, appointing incompetent managers, ignoring problems until they threaten to go public, and eventually just passing the buck onto another company... or a fairly average vtuber who has been as public and honest as her NDA allows, and openly asked people to talk to her in private if they had any further questions? I know whose story I'm going with.

 

[x Hades Stamps]

Pochi was recruited into Idol almost immediately after the first donothon people accuse her of running off with the money from. She made a public post about this on Twitter on her PL account explaining the situation. Her fans were very accepting of this being an opportunity she was better off taking and supported her decision to focus on going corporate over completing her remaining rewards. In her community Discord, there was a standing offer of refunds/private fulfilment where applicable for any goals she failed to complete before going on corpo-hiatus.

It was also announced in her old Discord where she went. I will reiterate that we knew where she went, and even chose to follow her over. That’s literally how I came to know about Idol.

 

[The Proctor]

It was also announced in her old Discord where she went. I will reiterate that we knew where she went, and even chose to follow her over. That’s literally how I came to know about Idol.

I appreciate the extra context. I've no idea if anyone on the forum besides you is a long-time Pochi watcher. I don't know how she used to act, whether she's genuinely 'guilty' of anything, etc. I can only repeat what I'm aware of and what I believe is an accurate summation of events. If you've anything else to add, please do.

 

[God's Strongest Dragoon]

At the end of the day, if it comes down to a he-said-she-said scenario; who would you prefer to believe? A Jew who has a very long track record of making false or exaggerated promises, appointing incompetent managers, ignoring problems until they threaten to go public, and eventually just passing the buck onto another company... or a fairly average vtuber who has been as public and honest as her NDA allows, and openly asked people to talk to her in private if they had any further questions? I know whose story I'm going with.

How about "neither, they're both retards"? Also correct me if I'm wrong but was it Pochi or Rin that had a second donathon up and running while their prior donathon had yet to be completed? And no, just because someone wants you to talk to them in private for further questions does not automatically make them more trustworthy.

 

[The Proctor]

just because someone wants you to talk to them in private for further questions does not automatically make them more trustworthy.

Why not?

 

[Brosnan Pierce Brosnan]

How about "neither, they're both retards"? Also correct me if I'm wrong but was it Pochi or Rin that had a second donathon up and running while their prior donathon had yet to be completed? And no, just because someone wants you to talk to them in private for further questions does not automatically make them more trustworthy.

Why not?

Unironically talking in private makes someone more untrustworthy IMO. I can get getting frustrated with public perception but for most people its easier to persuade someone one on one than a group

 

[reinigen]

How about "neither, they're both retards"? Also correct me if I'm wrong but was it Pochi or Rin that had a second donathon up and running while their prior donathon had yet to be completed? And no, just because someone wants you to talk to them in private for further questions does not automatically make them more trustworthy.

The second donothon was explicitly done for moving funds for her and (I believe) her sick mother she lives with. If I recall correctly, it was also moving from Canada to the United States. So if she had that money frozen mid move and couldn't pay for anything despite any sort of previous agreements, that does seem like kind of a dick move. But again, we don't know the full details since Idol by all accounts was in the middle of an implosion at that point.

@x Hades Stamps feel free to correct me if I got any details wrong.

 

[The Proctor]

Unironically talking in private makes someone more untrustworthy IMO. I can get getting frustrated with public perception but for most people its easier to persuade someone one on one than a group

Catch-22: If she did she speak up, she would be accused of being a liar who was trying to manipulate public perception instead of being discreet and only talking to her fans. This is exactly what happened to Sayu. I don't accept this as a valid argument simply because we have all observed multiple examples of the counterfactual in action, and that's without even going into the business implications.

 

[I Wanna Die]

Catch-22: If she did she speak up, she would be accused of being a liar who was trying to manipulate public perception instead of being discreet and only talking to her fans. This is exactly what happened to Sayu. I don't accept this as a valid argument simply because we have all observed multiple examples of the counterfactual in action, and that's without even going into the business implications.

She's still not seen as trustworthy. Opinions eventually shifted on Sayu for all but the most retarded cause she brought receipts. If Pochi has proof of everything she should show it.

 

[Nenélove]

Why do you need to talk in private about something which you are willing to tell random people about? Plausible deniability? You're admitting to telling people so what's even the point? I concur with kitbash, people who try to hide away everything in DMs are more untrustworthy, but in this case I dislike Aviel more so I guess I trust this girl more? Idk I don't really care about whatever Schrodinger's drama she's supposed to be involved in, I just wanted to give my 2-cents on the DMs stuff.

 

[x Hades Stamps]

The second donothon was explicitly done for moving funds for her and (I believe) her sick mother she lives with. If I recall correctly, it was also moving from Canada to the United States. So if she had that money frozen mid move and couldn't pay for anything despite any sort of previous agreements, that does seem like kind of a dick move. But again, we don't know the full details since Idol by all accounts was in the middle of an implosion at that point.

@x Hades Stamps feel free to correct me if I got any details wrong.

Nope, looks to all be correct

 

[The Proctor]

She's still not seen as trustworthy. Opinions eventually shifted on Sayu for all but the most retarded cause she brought receipts. If Pochi has proof of everything she should show it.

There is a cult of silence in vtubing regarding all matters such as this. You've hopefully seen how insanely hard it is to get *anyone* to talk about internal company matters, even in cases such as vReverie where talents are being shamelessly abused by Singaporean gacha-addicts trying to treat them like digital waifus. All vtubers have to decide between being seen as 'untrustworthy' by people like us - who probably don't watch them and who will likely never directly influence their careers - and being blacklisted by most companies, denied appearances at conventions, denied merchandising opportunities, and being ghosted by artists or riggers.

You simply can't say that somebody is untrustworthy for not willingly destroying any hope they have of being included in any circle larger than desperate 1-view nobodies and hobbyists with no ambition. Whistleblowers are hated in the police. Whistleblowers are hated in government. Whistleblowers are hated in industry. Whistleblowers are hated in entertainment. Why would vtubing be any different?

Just as a quick example of this; Charlotte Van Helen used to make art and rigs for vtubers. She has had to deal with people purposefully buying up her commission slots and then deliberately delaying giving her feedback and updates to extend the time it took her to complete their commissions. This was done because she expressed an interest in giving a commission to somebody who was known as a 'problem' in the industry, so rivals were willing to waste her time and their own money just so this person wouldn't get a quality model from her. That's the kind of demented bullshit you have to deal with if you speak out against conditions in this fucking industry.

Oh and while I'm here, I'm fairly certain Camila is experiencing a low-level blacklist right now for publicly apologizing to Shondo. That will almost certainly have permanently locked her out of any contacts that consider loli to be verboten, and any creators who don't want to deal with said anti-loli crusaders screaming at them for daring to talk to someone who was willing to apologize to a filthy lolicon pedophile vtuber reeeeeeeeeeee.

 

[I Wanna Die]

There is a cult of silence in vtubing regarding all matters such as this. You've hopefully seen how insanely hard it is to get *anyone* to talk about internal company matters, even in cases such as vReverie where talents are being shamelessly abused by Singaporean gacha-addicts trying to treat them like digital waifus. All vtubers have to decide between being seen as 'untrustworthy' by people like us - who probably don't watch them and who will likely never directly influence their careers - and being blacklisted by most companies, denied appearances at conventions, denied merchandising opportunities, and being ghosted by artists or riggers.

You simply can't say that somebody is untrustworthy for not willingly destroying any hope they have of being included in any circle larger than desperate 1-view nobodies and hobbyists with no ambition. Whistleblowers are hated in the police. Whistleblowers are hated in government. Whistleblowers are hated in industry. Whistleblowers are hated in entertainment. Why would vtubing be any different?

She's untrustworthy because she's dipped out on 3 donothons, and despite that continues to do them. I'd be willing to give her 1 pass but not 3. If she has proof that these were all outside of her control then I really do think she should show it, she doesn't need to do an expose on every shitty thing Idols done but it would at least prove she did everything she could.

I've seen what the Idol girls I watch have said about struggling to get their own donothon goals done but at the same time these were all goals they chose, and most importantly they're still working on them.

Hopefully she'll make good on this one since the rewards are a lot more reasonable. If she can complete it within a ~year then maybe it really was just bad timing/shitty circumstances that kept her from completing all the previous ones but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

I've never watched Pochi so at the end of the day my opinion doesn't really matter to her however I'd think that someone who has been there for multiple donothons and donated wanting to see some of these goals completed might be getting kinda fed up with it but vtuber fans are a bunch of fucking retards so who knows.

 

[Dr. Welshman]

In my dumbfuck opinion, first subathon is okay, because she got into idol, shit changes, fans understood.

The next two are the problem. Sure, I'm willing to give her the benefit for the second, because Idol has proven to be a fucking shambolic tower of shit, but the third is the stickler. Yeah, I can sympathise with IRL taking a massive shit on you, and we still got no clue as to the NDA or anything.

Proctor puts up valid points, but IWD also puts fourth valid concerns too. But let's face it, it's not beyond a corpos to go out of their way to screw a talent. But, in this case, the ball is firmly in her court. If she delivers, fully and at least mostly on time, it will reinforce the fact that some poor fuckers are that unlucky. If not, then she's essentially killed her career and fanbase.

Either way, watch this space

 

[RestlessRain]

I'm really skeptical of a talent having three donothons with unfulfilled goals and no transparency surrounding those unfulfilled goals. If she was able to say, "I couldn't do this goal because of this reason", with receipts, or attempted to offer her fans alternatives to those goals, I'd be much more sympathetic. As it is, there's unfulfilled goals from multiple donothons and no further information.

There is an argument to be made that the lack of talent management at Idol Corp led to Pochi not having someone to properly vet her more extravagant promises, but that would at best leave the lack of fulfillment as a shared responsibilty for two of her three donothons, rather than absolving Pochi of it. And that would still leave Pochi as someone who, in the most charitable reading we can give of the situation, repeatedly comes up with goals without properly working out how to fulfill them beforehand.

 

[reinigen]

I've seen what the Idol girls I watch have said about struggling to get their own donothon goals done but at the same time these were all goals they chose, and most importantly they're still working on them.

There is an argument to be made that the lack of talent management at Idol Corp led to Pochi not having someone to properly vet her more extravagant promises

From what I've been able to gather coming out of Idol between things Pochi, Rye, and ky0resu, there are 3 things I'm pretty sure of.
1) Aviel had no solid plan and seemed to bank on sensationalism and just outright copying other people and themselves to get as much attention and viewers as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the worst shit coming out of Idol (Yuko's piss as an example) was outright encouraged by Aviel.
2) Based on the above, it wouldn't surprise me if he encouraged each successive donothon done by the Gen 1 girls to have bigger and bigger donothon goals/rewards
3) Pochi had the last of the 5 donothons, so I expect he probably pushed her HARD to have some crazy goals without acting like a MANAGER and keeping his talents ambitions in check.

I think Aviel had a responsibility to act like a proper manager, but by all accounts he didn't do the most important job which is to be a check to his talents unrealistic ideas.

and we still got no clue as to the NDA or anything.

I have to imagine the NDA is pretty fucking rough. We have 3 talents that got kinda screwed in their own ways. The fact we haven't heard a peep except through shadows indicates to me the NDA would probably fuck them six ways from Sunday if they speak in public too much.

 

[Nigel Nigerman]

In V-tubing, 4 things are certain:
- Debut
- Graduation
- @The Proctor vagueposting
- Pochi doing another donothon