Hololive L Collection

[The Proctor]

I liked corpos because it has tard wranglers and rules. Without that you get a Kson. Sometimes it won't work (looking at Nijisanji), but at its best it made sure talents were focused and had a goal and not led to complacency with "talent freedom," but right now these guardrails are growing too narrow and it is worrying how this is affecting talents. I just hope Yahoo sees how this is affecting talents and tries to change course, and I believe he can, Cover has rebounded from mistakes before and I doubt Cover isn't potentially seeing their decisions as mistaken at this point.

The fallacy here is the assumption that 'tard wranglers and rules' are actually set up by people who understand what the customer wants and how to create a successful brand. Who do you trust in this industry to do that? I certainly don't know anyone. My experience with 'vtuber managers' has been universally negative. Even within Hololive, massive issues with management has been present since the early days. Have we all forgotten how Chinese antis ended up getting made moderators on Coco's channel? I also recall but can't exactly place a manager getting fired in the last year who was so awful that at least one talent (Mori?) directly called them out as useless.

This is the way Cover wants things to be. I'm convinced of that at this point. Either because they are the way the shareholders have decided things should be, or Cover's imperfect perception of their customer base has determined this as being the best way forward.

 

[Xuhle]

I also recall but can't exactly place a manager getting fired in the last year who was so awful that at least one talent (Mori?) directly called them out as useless.

Are you talking about Omega? Several talents were making snid remarks on them from Kiara and Shiori saying they are dead and gone.

 

[furaibou]

The fallacy here is the assumption that 'tard wranglers and rules' are actually set up by people who understand what the customer wants and how to create a successful brand. Who do you trust in this industry to do that? I certainly don't know anyone. My experience with 'vtuber managers' has been universally negative. Even within Hololive, massive issues with management has been present since the early days. Have we all forgotten how Chinese antis ended up getting made moderators on Coco's channel? I also recall but can't exactly place a manager getting fired in the last year who was so awful that at least one talent (Mori?) directly called them out as useless.

This is the way Cover wants things to be. I'm convinced of that at this point. Either because they are the way the shareholders have decided things should be, or Cover's imperfect perception of their customer base has determined this as being the best way forward.

True (re Chinese antis), but you know, it was pretty badass when Yagoo just nuked the entire HoloCN branch for being arseholes, just like Omega was nuked.

 

[Svarog]

By 2030 I'd assume most of the girls we have right now are going to be gone. And that's just how it is.

Except Fubuki, because "As long as the canary's alive, everything's fine".

 

[MerelyTourist]

but talents taking business issues personally might and will cause issues

Yes, because vtubing is a business where person is the product, thus all personal stuff become inseparable from business.
To be a successful corpo, you have no choice but cater to your talent whims, to some (pretty large) extent. With what holo girls been saying lately, they seem to have same offline workload as if they were doing everything personally, but sharing money with corpo. On top of being shut down more and more creatively. Which bodes the question, what value exactly Holo provide for their old talents now? Is it worth 50% still?

 

[The Proctor]

True (re Chinese antis), but you know, it was pretty badass when Yagoo just nuked the entire HoloCN branch for being arseholes, just like Omega was nuked.

Would it be historical revision to say that might have been more of a cynical business decision than anything talent focused? As I remember (and feel free to correct me because it's been years since I looked into this) the HoloCN girls were being very, very unsubtle about their politics and viewpoints in ways that were either directly connected to their Holo identities or were just outright blabbing on main. That alone was pretty clear-cut grounds for firing, regardless of personal feelings.

 

[Helkar]

You know, in general vtubers just aren't going to last as long as people working an office job or construction. That's just not the kind of job it is. Even the oldest vtubers haven't been doing this for even just 10 years yet. Meanwhile I've been at my job for close to 15.

By 2030 I'd assume most of the girls we have right now are going to be gone. And that's just how it is.

There're multiple streamers that have been streaming for over a decade though, and a decent pool of early-2010s youtube content creators that are still going in some shape or form.
Vtubing should, in theory, work even better for longevity, because of not having to deal with sentiments like "wow bitch you look older than the last time i saw you 5 years ago".

 

[RiverBear]

My experience with 'vtuber managers' has been universally negative.

And why should we care about your experience vs the talents' experience with their managers? With bad managers, you also get good ones, but I guess we just forget about them to make a point

 

[furaibou]

Would it be historical revision to say that might have been more of a cynical business decision than anything talent focused? As I remember (and feel free to correct me because it's been years since I looked into this) the HoloCN girls were being very, very unsubtle about their politics and viewpoints in ways that were either directly connected to their Holo identities or were just outright blabbing on main. That alone was pretty clear-cut grounds for firing, regardless of personal feelings.

A wise decision, seeing how West Taiwan is so invasive and manipulative (even more than normal JP business). Which is why (as I stated either in this thread or another) if Cover resurrects HoloCN the true doom and gloom will begin.

 

[Egg the Boiled]

Now now children. Corpos and indies are both good and bad in their own unique ways.

I understand the situation sucks and that Fauna going full nuke vs going out an affliate is a sign that there is something in the background, but I will not stand for people acting as if the indiesphere is suddenly the end-all-be-all of Vtubing.

I don't want to be a corpo bootlicker, but I also don't want to live in a world where indies that prostitute themselves to the highest bidders are seen as the true encapsulation of the Vtubing experience

I completely agree. I just feel like this is going to devolve into shitflinging between Indie enjoyers and Corpo enjoyers.

 

[RiverBear]

Now now children. Corpos and indies are both good and bad in their own unique ways.

I understand the situation sucks and that Fauna going full nuke vs going out an affliate is a sign that there is something in the background, but I will not stand for people acting as if the indiesphere is suddenly the end-all-be-all of Vtubing.

I don't want to be a corpo bootlicker, but I also don't want to live in a world where indies that prostitute themselves to the highest bidders are seen as the true encapsulation of the Vtubing experience

 

[Aquatic Novellite]

I don't want to be a corpo bootlicker, but I also don't want to live in a world where indies that prostitute themselves to the highest bidders are seen as the true encapsulation of the Vtubing experience

I can't believe these whores won't prostitute themselves in my expenses range.

 

[The Proctor]

And why should we care about your experience vs the talents' experience with their managers? With bad managers, you also get good ones, but I guess we just forget about them to make a point

Most vtuber managers do nothing but things the talents can already do themselves, they simply take the pressure of those decisions off of the talent's shoulders so they can focus on streaming. This is a very low-skill job, and compounds with the issue that there is no standard of a 'good manager' versus a 'bad manager'. How do you tell the difference, exactly? Unless they're blatantly incompetent, it's extremely hard. If you grow, was it because of your manager, or was it just your natural talent getting a bigger audience? If you fail, did your manager screw up or were you just unlucky or genuinely untalented enough that you didn't attract an audience? What metrics do you use to calculate this?

What even is a manager, exactly? Ten different people will all have different definitions of a manager. There is no universal standard, and therefore it is not a good career choice. Very few jobs will be gatekept by actual business qualifications, and those that do won't be paying anything more than you could get by handling 5-10 clueless indies with severe social anxiety who are happy to give you a 10% revenue cut to write them the odd reply to a sponsorship email.

When you look at the industry from an analytical perspective, you quickly realize there are no conditions that foster a pool of good managerial talent. The money isn't there. The support systems aren't there. The qualifications aren't there. Every job will have different requirements. Most of the big opportunities will be bi or multilingual. I would go so far as to say there is not one single vtuber manager out there who couldn't make more money using those same skills in another industry.

 

[USS IOWA]

Oh man. If you go check Gura's most recent video (from September) and sort the comments by newest, it's very telling how people feel about the whole situation.

View attachment 84530

Speaking of Gura ya'll notuced that Senzawa's Twitter Banner has changed.

 

[God's Strongest Dragoon]

Can we at the very least have one thread in this whole forum not going back and forth with Proctor? Just ignore him if he doesn't have anything relevant to say.

The Null experience

 

[GOD'S STRONGEST BUILDERBEAR]

Who do you trust in this industry to do that?

A-Chan and Muumi

 

[Helkar]

"How do we not find competent fucking managers on actual official fucking managing sites and he(Sakana) finds a perfect fucking waifu manager in a League lobby out of all places, how does he do it" - Tenma Maemi.

Seems topical.

 

[The Proctor]

"How do we not find competent fucking managers on actual official fucking managing sites and he finds a perfect fucking waifu manager in a league lobby out of all places, how does he do it" - Tenma Maemi.

Seems topical.

One makes money.
The other doesn't.
It's THAT FUCKING SIMPLE.

Edit: To enumerate on my previous statement a little; have you seen the kind of shit that E-sports celebrities get up to? I've personally spoken to a guy who dabbled in vtuber management after retiring from being a professional e-sports rep, and he implicitly told me that compared to dealing with groups like FaZe Clan, vtubers are extremely lightweight and easy work. The only reason he stuck it out was because e-sports was worth 6-figure contracts a year for part-time work, and he turned to vtuber management just as a way to keep his hand in while he transferred his skillset to a financial market.

 

[Negzana]

One makes money.
The other doesn't.
It's THAT FUCKING SIMPLE.

Edit: To enumerate on my previous statement a little; have you seen the kind of shit that E-sports celebrities get up to? I've personally spoken to a guy who dabbled in vtuber management after retiring from being a professional e-sports rep, and he implicitly told me that compared to dealing with groups like FaZe Clan, vtubers are extremely lightweight and easy work. The only reason he stuck it out was because e-sports was worth 6-figure contracts a year for part-time work, and he turned to vtuber management just as a way to keep his hand in while he transferred his skillset to a financial market.

So what you're saying is Kaela should become a manager and everything would be fixed, got it.

 

[Jean Valjean]

I do kind of wonder if Proctor doesn't hear about positive experiences with managers simply because vtubers with positive experiences with their managers have less reason to approach him. Sample bias and all.