Hololive L Collection

[Jean Valjean]

Faggotry aside, it's kinda funny how people were just okay with Chloe's graduation announcement yesterday but suddenly up in arms about Fauna's
ONLY EN MATTERS

Framing. Chloe is leaving on good terms and is asking not to rrat (well, not like rratters will believe anything the talents say anyway unless it's bad, but still), Fauna is, well, not exactly. People would be more fine with Fauna leaving (beyond the usual doomposting about Hololive having sprung a leak) had she not outright gone "disagreement with management", (tried to) shut down the "streamer vs idol" narrative, and gone with the soft affiliate graduation instead of the hard graduation she went with.

 

[Negzana]

Framing. Chloe is leaving on good terms and is asking not to rrat (well, not like rratters will believe anything the talents say anyway unless it's bad, but still), Fauna is, well, not exactly. People would be more fine with Fauna leaving (beyond the usual doomposting about Hololive having sprung a leak) had she not outright gone "disagreement with management", (tried to) shut down the "streamer vs idol" narrative, and gone with the soft affiliate graduation instead of the hard graduation she went with.

She also did it a day after Chloe made her announcement mid-way through her contract after months of talents departing. That's the worrying part. This breaks so many trends when it comes to the vibes and tone I've seen for other graduations.

 

[Superduper Samurai]

The corpo scene breaking is not going to trickle out into indies unless the graduated or unhappy individuals stick to consistent schedules like dokibird
I think even then she is an outlier because she jumped right on back to the scene at all cylinders because it was her geniune passion and only choice (i have no idea what was her wagie job). She also went for extremely big events throughout the year, mostly shit she wanted to do at Niji but couldnt.

But corpos dying are just going to lead to people being bitter about the medium as a whole, most who joined during the coof boom are just going to go back to what they watched previously or the oodles of flesh streamers who often dont have kayfaybe or bizzare industry caveats that both corpos and indies do.


Unless there is a pretty major push by ex corpo fags, i dont think people are going to pivot to the other sides of the industry, holobronie isnt that much of a meme. There is a slight truth to it.
Not even everyone in the forum is someone who has diverse tastes in companies or individual chuubas, and im tentatively applying this to the scene as a whole, when some people or corpos break, some people are just going to call it quits on supporting the medium as a whole

 

[Stunned But Dumb]

I think she is an outlier because she jumped right on back to the scene at all cylinders because it was her geniune passion and only choice (i have no idea what was her wagie job)

iirc, she was living with her parents and making money selling art. Badges and pins and stuff. I can't remember the details.

 

[Rock Solid]

What else am I supposed to do? Stay quiet and say nothing is wrong, when in the last year, the biggest corporation in vtubing has effectively killed its international wing through multiple massive, crippling blunders, the 2nd largest has lost multiple members of its top talent pool, and there have been multiple other implosions among the smaller corporations that sprung up in the shadow of their former successes?

At what point am I 'allowed' or 'permitted' to talk about this kind of thing, exactly? Name the amount of talents that need to graduate, please. Perhaps we should collaborate and establish an official 'Selen Scale' for describing corporate maleficence, and have a little gauge on the corner of these threads I can monitor and know when a 7.5 Tatsukis level yab has taken place and I'm permitted to come and give my opinion

It's because every single time you give your two cents you always derail the discussion.

 

[Void Scribas]

Repost from the Chloe graduation tread.

Original:

I think people need to consider that a company could do everything “right” in the sense of being a nice workspace and people still leave because they are looking for other objectives in life that doesn't align with the corpo objectives. Nijisanji and small corpo fuck up has influenced us to see all of these events in some deontological "good/bad" dichotomy of evil corpo versus small talent.

Eventually, people are just looking for other things in life and both parties separates on good terms, is happened with Ame, Aqua hand will happen with Chloe . It is inevitable that not everyone will stay forever, and as long everything is done in good faith, like it happened in those cases, then things will be fine.

-----------------

Now having said that and currently with Fauna graduation, and considering the creation of the ReGLOSS branch, it is clearly Yagoo has activated the "WE ARE AN IDOL COMPANY FOR REAL" protocol. Probably the less music oriented members of Hololive will graduate next year or decide to enter the idol side and became better at music. My theory is that Calli, Kiara, Irys and Bae are safe to not graduate because of their interest in the musical side of the industry.

So future graduations could be predicted based on who are more interested in becoming singers/idols (those who will stay) and whose are more interested in being variety/gamer streamers (those who will leave)

People that are interested in joining Hololive and are lurking here, the company has clearly decided to focus more on the idol/music side so operate in consequence, if you like singing, then I guess the blue dorito is for you, but if not, better try other corpo.

 

[Aquatic Novellite]

Faggotry aside, it's kinda funny how people were just okay with Chloe's graduation announcement yesterday but suddenly up in arms about Fauna's
ONLY EN MATTERS

People care more about people they watch than people they don't watch, news at eleven.

 

[Trap Supremacy]

What else am I supposed to do? Stay quiet...?

Yes. Every time you talk about vtubers outside your wheelhouse you always talk about them through your skewed anti-corpo lens that you've developed since you've always been an obnoxious indie groomer. None of what you say truly adds anything to the conversation other than being a negative nancy and it reminds me more than a little of Null getting high off of his own anti-American farts a year ago.

You have a right to remain silent and let people hash things out on their own. Even if you have your own "information network" I refuse to recognize most of it as legitimate for the reasons @Jean Valjean stated. Until you show your intentions as genuinely good and not self-serving I will continue to assume they are worthless.

 

[PleaseCheckYourReceipts]

Not discounting Fauna could be having a legitimate "Woman Moment", I wonder if the California office existing has much to do with this? The change in direction would have been in the investor statements, so we haven't really seen anything different show up there in nearly 2 years. So it has to be behind the scenes structure stuff. It's now a fairly large company and it's entirely possible talents are now feeling far more like Contractors than Co-Creators with their characters. Layers between branches are cropping up. Middlemen exist now where they didn't before (even if they were actually needed).

I also just had a realization that, in an attempt to have better approval processes for game permissions, they somehow went too far Japanese Corporate Autism and now stuff needs to be filed in triplicate. Too many Japanese only understand the concept of "burdensome bureaucracy" and it's entirely possible they simply have too much now and that's driving at last this graduation. One can only have so many ideas quashed by delayed permissions before frustration really builds. Hololive has always been pretty heavy on "flavor of the month", so it's also possible that's all they can regularly keep in the queue right now.

---

I had a thought in the Fauna thread: has Cover banned ASMR streams? If you don't know about the changes at Youtube, they've been nuking channels for ASMR seemingly on a whim. Because the last one I can find she did was in April, and the last EN was in September. Haachama, Okayu and Noel are the only ones still somewhat doing ASMR. (Though calling what Haachama does ASMR is questionable.)

 

[Just pretending]

The greatest ward against getting parasocial seems to be this nagging fear in the back of your head that your oshi might one day just disappear without explanation, so you shouldn't get emotionally invested. It's true, yet disheartening at the same time. It's just all so tiresome.

And also I wish Proctor had someone to take everything he writes and re-write it in a coherent, less autistic manner before he's allowed to post it.

 

[furaibou]

One makes money.
The other doesn't.
It's THAT FUCKING SIMPLE.

 

[The Proctor]

Yes. Every time you talk about vtubers outside your wheelhouse you always talk about them through your skewed anti-corpo lens that you've developed since you've always been an obnoxious indie groomer. None of what you say truly adds anything to the conversation other than being a negative nancy and it reminds me more than a little of Null getting high off of his own anti-American farts a year ago.

You have a right to remain silent and let people hash things out on their own. Even if you have your own "information network" I refuse to recognize most of it as legitimate for the reasons @Jean Valjean stated. Until you show your intentions as genuinely good and not self-serving I will continue to assume they are worthless.

I would appreciate it if you explained how exactly I'm being self-serving.

 

[furaibou]

Faggotry aside, it's kinda funny how people were just okay with Chloe's graduation announcement yesterday but suddenly up in arms about Fauna's
ONLY EN MATTERS

No, it's not that. It's that Fauna's came out of the blue, without signs of activity deterioration (aka Gura) and with a short, prepared (admitted by her saying she's reading notes) statement, and not taking the "affiliate" option that Orca is doing.

 

[Trap Supremacy]

I would appreciate it if you explained how exactly I'm being self-serving.

Most of your reason for saying anything here is primarily to spread the gospel of indiedom. That would be fine if you were simply telling people to hedge their bets, but you constantly feel the need to not only build up indies, but tear down corpos and their fans in the process. I hope you see why that isn't exactly the best plan to try and get people into indies while people still want to appreciate the things corporations have done and continue to do even in spite of their failings.

I believe you have good intentions with all of this. I just wish you'd be a bit more amicable in what you say instead of jumping into arguments and tearing down others the moment you see blood in the water. I know what you feel you've seen of corporations behind the scenes is bad, but you should always remember the bias that you're hearing these things through and consider it before you immediately jump to the worst conclusions.

 

[Svarog]

So future graduations could be predicted based on who are more interested in becoming singers/idols (those who will stay) and whose are more interested in being variety/gamer streamers (those who will leave)

Fauna said "Not because I want to, not because I don't want to be an Idol." And Aqua still wants her sololive. So it doesn't fit as a reason for graduation.

 

[RestlessRain]

Most vtuber managers do nothing but things the talents can already do themselves, they simply take the pressure of those decisions off of the talent's shoulders so they can focus on streaming. This is a very low-skill job, and compounds with the issue that there is no standard of a 'good manager' versus a 'bad manager'. How do you tell the difference, exactly? Unless they're blatantly incompetent, it's extremely hard. If you grow, was it because of your manager, or was it just your natural talent getting a bigger audience? If you fail, did your manager screw up or were you just unlucky or genuinely untalented enough that you didn't attract an audience? What metrics do you use to calculate this?

What even is a manager, exactly? Ten different people will all have different definitions of a manager. There is no universal standard, and therefore it is not a good career choice. Very few jobs will be gatekept by actual business qualifications, and those that do won't be paying anything more than you could get by handling 5-10 clueless indies with severe social anxiety who are happy to give you a 10% revenue cut to write them the odd reply to a sponsorship email.

When you look at the industry from an analytical perspective, you quickly realize there are no conditions that foster a pool of good managerial talent. The money isn't there. The support systems aren't there. The qualifications aren't there. Every job will have different requirements. Most of the big opportunities will be bi or multilingual. I would go so far as to say there is not one single vtuber manager out there who couldn't make more money using those same skills in another industry.

Here's Pippa talking about how Phase Connect manager Muumi helped save Phase Connect:



Here's a clip of Pippa talking about how Muumi flew out to Pippa to help her sort out her passport for her trip to Japan.



Here's a clip of Lisa talking about how Slugma/Dizzy was really helpful as a manager while the two were at Tsunderia (Pippa also complains about how Dizzy coined the term "sad girl company", which is amusing but not relevant to this discussion).



Here's Matara talking about finding Vshojo's management helpful when organizing a project, and offering her assistance and getting things organized to help with said project:



Here's Michi talking about finding her manager, Michael, helpful, with sorting a bunch of stuff for her:



Your anti-management rant is easily refuted by stories like these from talents.

 

[MerelyTourist]

Fauna said "Not because I want to, not because I don't want to be an Idol." And Aqua still wants her sololive. So it doesn't fit as a reason for graduation.

Enters OshiSpark... I still stand on my prediction that such service-type companies will be the next kings of vtubing corpos, not full-package ones.
I wonder if Holo will be eventually forced to open doors and produce concerts for indies too? (officially with PR, not just silently renting studio which they likely already do)

Your anti-management rant is too simplistic and easily refuted by stories like these from talents.

I think he meant indie "managers"
But even in indie scene there is room for value services, like curated portfolio of artists and merch producers that can deliver quality work on time, or even general merch & international shipping consultancy.

 

[The Proctor]

Most of your reason for saying anything here is primarily to spread the gospel of indiedom. That would be fine if you were simply telling people to hedge their bets, but you constantly feel the need to not only build up indies, but tear down corpos and their fans in the process. I hope you see why that isn't exactly the best plan to try and get people into indies while people still want to appreciate the things corporations have done and continue to do even in spite of the failings.

I'm sorry if I've given the impression that I'm trying to push people to watch indies. That isn't my intention. Who anyone chooses to watch is entirely their business. What I push back against is the mythology that fans have built up about corporations. People who buy into those mythologies are setting themselves up for disappointment.

When Nijisanji was dying, people were delighted to jump on their corpse to see what funny noises it made beneath their energetic gyrations. I joined in because, it was funny. It was funny even though somebody nearly killed themselves over it, because people are morbidly entertained by tragedy and disaster, especially when they feel it's deserved.

Now I see the coin slowly but surely flipping over onto its other side, and I have no desire to watch people uncritically ignore the painful bellowing of their sacred cow until it abruptly expires before their eyes and they're left waiting for an autopsy report to figure out who to blame.

Your anti-management rant is easily refuted by stories like these from talents.

All your examples are from people who were previously subjected to either no management at all or extremely bad, borderline malicious miss-management. Also, Pippa has a known habit of overcompensating and ignoring problems when she thinks it's in the best interests of her company. I'd highlight her borderline choking her way through that PR piece she was obviously forced to do for Offkai to cover up the disastrous issues that affected Phase Connect's appearances, with her bearing the brunt of those issues in particular.

 

[Helkar]

Now I see the coin slowly but surely flipping over onto its other side, and I have no desire to watch people uncritically ignore the painful bellowing of their sacred cow until it abruptly expires before their eyes and they're left waiting for an autopsy report to figure out who to blame.

Yeah, i feel like comparing whatever's going on at Cover now with Selen/11 is premature at best. NijiEN by that point had Zaion incident and about a year of growing mismanagement/mistreatment rumours going around. With HoloEN, Ame's non-graduation was seemingly amicable and didn't leave any lasting issues. Fauna's case, for now, is unique, and unless she drops some nuclear bombs once she goes indie, or unless the situation repeats, confidently stating that HoloEN's going on NijiEN's route only sounds reasonable if you inherently dislike Holo and want it to fail.
Otherwise, there isn't enough information to come to this conclusion.

 

[Superduper Samurai]

I think a distinction between indies who want/have management and corpo management is that they do different things for each other and nobody bothers to use another name for the indie variant.
I wouldnt be surpirsed if most self hired management doesnt do even a sliver of wrangling even the most hands off corpo fag does. What most indies want or need is essentialy a secretary to filter out and sort individual deals or opportunities

I think another thing that seems to lead to good management to an extent is a much more lower talent overhang, Phase has 26, VSJ has only 16. Hololive and especially Niji are eons larger. This of course, is not always the case since Idol flopped like it did. But i think its still a factor

Vsj also has the intersting dynamic of some people like Ironmouse also having Mythic talent behind her back