Are you just going to ignore @Nenélove and @RestlessRain posts? Aw shuck. Maybe @Godzilla1984 was right.
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EIEN Project Disintegrates
- Thread starter The Proctor
- Start date
Okay, here's my follow-up question: so what? For example, we all know that Harry of NEXAS fame is at least passingly acquainted with Yagoo, and we have proof of this passing acquaintance. But if Yagoo has ever given Harry advice, Harry has obviously ignored it. Harry hasn't learned anything from the structure or management of Hololive or its talents. Hololive hasn't influenced NEXAS beyond the fact that it exists and makes money and Harry is trying to cash in on the same industry.
So, I repeat myself: if Harry of NEXAS knows Yagoo, so what? Even if we were to all agree that all these people in vtubing are one or two degrees separated from eachother, so what?
Jerking each other off professionally doesn't mean they're in close contact. It means a guy knows a guy, and they probably share some kind words about each other's companies. They'd keep an eye on what each other are doing.
Hololive probably does know about small corpos being shut down. They just don't care.
Nick Rekita is a drug-addict, a cuckold, a child abuser (in the nonsexual sense, that we know of) and a narcissist who has appeared on stream with coke smeared over his nose and read the same superchat about a farting dragon eleven times in a row.
Yet he still, to this very day has multiple fellow lawyers defending him and calling all the evidence against him 'circumstantial'. Why? Because they either live in a bubble where they simply don't allow that kind of information to be filtered to them through an objective lens, or they're just as bad as he is and covering for each other.
This is the same problem I have with vtuber managers and support staff. They are fundamentally under no obligations to actually care about their talents whatsoever, and in my direct experience, most automatically choose 'what will get me clout in this industry' over 'what will objectively make my talents money, and by extension myself more money'. This extends to outright lying to their talents and then trading them in immediately for someone more connected when they have the chance.
Since most vtubers aren't professionals or have any business experience, they have no ability to go to any of the places managers and staff congregate to discuss or network and complain. They shout into the void with google documents that nobody reads, and staff automatically dismiss in the same way you or I would dismiss an anonymous poster on 4chan saying 'I fucked Filian once and she's actually intersex with a cojoined twin and has two pseudopenises as a result'. This creates an extreme negative feedback loop where someone can keep getting jobs not because they're good at managing, but because they're a good self-publicist, which is 95% of getting any job in any market, barring maybe brain surgery, and even then there's some morbid counterfactuals.
Let me try and illustrate this; someone I know is trying to buy a house at the moment. They are very much solvent and very much in a positive income bracket, but they don't have a good credit score because they've literally never been in enough debt to get a decent one. Despite being able to easily prove how much money they make, no lending company will touch them. Then they get a CPA who specializes in cases like this, and within a week, they get pre-approval for a mortgage of up to a million dollars. In a conversation with their CPA, they ask what the magic words were, and the CPA admits candidly 'look, I don't even try to explain, I just tell them you earn X amount and they believe me without question, because I'm a registered agent and they have no reason to even look at my paperwork unless a government agent is actively breathing down their neck the moment they open the file'.
Now my gut tells me that this is retarded, and that somewhere down the line someone is going to end up dead in a ditch with the words 'never fuck with the IRS' carved into their skin. But that someone is probably going to be ten degrees of separation from the house buyer, the bank, the CPA, and anyone associated with them. It's a case of 'if a tree falls alone in a forest, did it really happen?'
I can think of a dozen ways to expand this outwards into a much larger conversation about business, ethics, human psychology, game theory, and a half-dozen other interwoven topics. But I'm also conscious that I'm writing this while half-dressed in bed on a laptop, so I'll stop here. All I'll say is that I really wish I didn't have the kind of autism I have, and would love to tap into the kind of autism that lets people intuit exactly what meme they need to repost to make everyone in the thread go 'oooooh, so that's what you mean, I get it now.'
I think I have accidentally created something I never intended to create, so allow me to be clear. I do not know if EIEN has anything to do with Hololive. I have no idea if any managers, staff, vtubers or anyone else from any company outside of Hololive now do in fact work for Hololive, nor have I ever heard any information that would imply there are any direct cases of this happening. If my own words have encouraged such a narrative to develop, then that is my fault and I apologize for it sincerely.
I'm not going to address anything else you posted, because all of it is perfectly sensible and I agree with basically all of it. This is the kind of argument I asked for, and I'm grateful you took the time to make it. So instead I'm going to focus on clarifying the parts I think relate to a narrative I had no intention of creating.
All I have meant to claim is that people aren't grasping the bigger picture if they dismiss this possibility out of hand and act like Hololive is a monolith that is immune to such events taking place. If people thought that I was implying I know of specific incidents of this happening; no, I do not. I am simply aware by now of how this industry operates to a large enough degree that I will always be suspicious, and will never buy into the 'streamer who never knew anyone else before joining' narrative ever again.
My comments about corporations like Kawaii were not intended to come off as implying that I knew there was secret collusion or insider dealings going on, or that there was some incredibly important hidden truth I knew but couldn't talk about that everyone else was missing. I can only take the L on that front if that's genuinely how I came across.
If you want to call me a retard for not understanding what my words would create, then by all means do so. I just don't know how to effectively transition from conversations about specific incidents to trends, incentives, market interactions and recurrent patterns in the industry as a whole.
I'm sorry for this, truly I am.
The only thing I want people to understand is that these companies aren't in competition. They are the NFL Leagues. Or democratic governments one step below the positions people vote for, if you want to be extremely cynical.
Nick Rekieta has also had Null on stream.
Doesn't seem to have had much impact in terms of Null running to his defense, or exchanging information, or relying on each other's support network, or anything else in that vein. It certainly hasn't resulted in KF being drawn into a Rekieta shaped vortex.
Sometimes people knowing each other means just that, and nothing more.
Didn't you know? Sakana is personally responsible for the well-being and livelihood of every single unemployed vtuber. He receives government subsidies as well as UNESCO and UNICEF grants towards this goal. The only reason Kevin declined the Nobel Peace Prize last year was the catering didn't stock enough cane-sugar coca-cola.
as a holodrone, It's funny to read those threads when I don't know half the people who are being discussed.
So my thoughts reading this are just:
"Who is Blaise, who is Eri, who is moeri, who is Shibi"
You don't have to answer that, I don't really care all that much, or someone make that post, so this thread is readable to all and not just people who have been following these girls through 6 different incarnations.
I would just need someone to give in clear words a plausible theory on why Kilia had to graduate and why she didn't just wait out the death of the corpo to leave with her model/IP intact? I cant see why she would choose to start new again unless EIEI pulled a V&U and charged like 400k USD for it.
So my thoughts reading this are just:
"Who is Blaise, who is Eri, who is moeri, who is Shibi"
You don't have to answer that, I don't really care all that much, or someone make that post, so this thread is readable to all and not just people who have been following these girls through 6 different incarnations.
I would just need someone to give in clear words a plausible theory on why Kilia had to graduate and why she didn't just wait out the death of the corpo to leave with her model/IP intact? I cant see why she would choose to start new again unless EIEI pulled a V&U and charged like 400k USD for it.
She didnt sound like she's aware of it. Even if she was, her new outfit probably increased the price. There's a rrat about something happening between her and blaise that might have led to her graduation
I think this post is relevant now. Will have to see if they will stick together or continue interacting.
General Thread v2: Enhanced Segregation Techniques!
Ina faces the bread. An accidental language joke that covered 4 different languages that would take an hour to explain the context for even how it would come about. Sometimes, we're REALLY far down a rabbit hole. And that was really funny.thevirtualasylum.com
Null is an extreme outlier who's experiences and behaviours shouldn't be counted on when trying to predict the average. That level of obstinance isn't normal, and even he will freely admit it's his own worst enemy when it comes to business and maintaining personal connections.
Here you go this should answer about Kilia below, also I know it was rhetorical but I'll answer for those who want, "Who is Blaise" another EIEN member that allegedly has beef with Kilia, "who is Eri, who is moeri" someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe both these are the same person ,the Vtuber who was the CEO of EIEN, "who is Shibi" A member of Vallure which is the company started by Stronny Cuttles aka Riifu Evergreen the first EIEN talent to leave the company under odd circumstances we still don't fully understand, Shibi and Stronny are both assisting the members of EIEN that didn't purchase their models.
Speaking of Kilia. The buoys are gathering and patiently waiting for the former Dorca's return I wonder how to fit bat with dork hmmmm
Navi couldn't afford her model. Protected so no link
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Wonder how much they charged since others did actually buy their models. Although they may have charged them less than her since they were going to close everything anyways.
Even if we were to take the most cynical view that all CEOs and managers of vtuber agencies are cold-hearted, self-interested bastards with no moral values and were incapable of any sort of friendship, it would still be in their best interest to look after their talents. Talents that are looked after means lower talent turnover, they're working harder and dedicating more time and effort to you, talents that are looked after mean the fanbase is happy and giving you money. Oh, and you're more likely to attract better talents in the future.
While there are examples of corpos that fail even though they treat talents well, the history of vtubing is filled with examples where treating talents well gets rewarded and treating talents poorly does not. Nijisanji EN was the second-biggest corpo in the EN sphere, and when it came to light that Nijisanji mistreated Selen, have seen huge losses in viewership and donations that have only gotten worse over time. Production Kawaii didn't treat it's third-gen well and the talents of that gen collectively left, lost a huge amount of money with that walkout and also saw a resulting huge drop in audience and viewer numbers. On the other hand, Hololive treats its talents well and is the leader in the industry. Phase Connect treats its talents well and sees explosive growth every year.
tl;dr - looking after talents means a more stable and profitable business in the long term.
As someone who has worked for a couple major corporations, counterpoint:
Looking after talents costs money
Even more corpo response:
Looking after talents their wellbeing etc then makes the talents your liability
If you take a look at the snippets from current and ex members being positive about the people working at holo and that one pseudo glass door review complaining talent outdicked management you can piece an incomplete but not wholly awful insight on Holo management.
Mike's deranged alleged 5chan postings also, iirc, never spoke ill of higher ups and just focused on petty drama or which talents were taking dick, but thats the word of Mike and not wholly trustworthy, and possibly avoiding lawfare
Either way i suppose alot were just simply annoyed at the possibility of Proctor having actual insider info and not hunches, not entirely out of base or even too negative hunches, considering what we've seen, but hunches nonetheless
Holo is still a jap company, so ultimately until someone trustworthy speaks candidly and it gets translated it will always be looking at tea leaves
Mike's deranged alleged 5chan postings also, iirc, never spoke ill of higher ups and just focused on petty drama or which talents were taking dick, but thats the word of Mike and not wholly trustworthy, and possibly avoiding lawfare
Either way i suppose alot were just simply annoyed at the possibility of Proctor having actual insider info and not hunches, not entirely out of base or even too negative hunches, considering what we've seen, but hunches nonetheless
Holo is still a jap company, so ultimately until someone trustworthy speaks candidly and it gets translated it will always be looking at tea leaves
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Ah dang I've been touching grass for far too long. Here's hoping the Bostonian frog gremlin lands on her feet.
I think in the specific case of EIEN this is very likely true. Eri never seemed content to just be the CEO, she had to insert herself as her VTuber persona multiple times (afaik the most recent of which was the EIEN Among Us collab literal days before Kilia graduated, gotta get in on that increased viewership...) in a way that felt very self-promotional unlike when YAGOO models merch or Sakana pops up on a Phase girl's stream. Still doing my archive reps looking for actual proof, but I've seen several rrats that indicate EIEN staff member Risti is also the vtuber Silvi who has a history of numberfagging and trying to piggyback off of bigger vtubers, notably Shondo a few years ago. If I recall correctly Risti did confirm she has an indie vtuber persona during Kilia's sendoff in Discord, but she didn't actually give the channel name... unfortunately since it was a Discord call I can't go back and check. If she is in fact Silvi, then I would definitely believe there was a notable amount of clout-chasing going on among management - likely at the expense of the talents.
Looks like she's gained a couple hundred followers since EIEN collapsed... I imagine more to follow once Navi and Zumi's accounts get updated to point to Ferumi and Nemo.
So Navi desperately wanted to keep her model but couldn't, meanwhile Blaise isn't even sure if she'll keep streaming as Blaise forever and got hers... Starting to believe the "different girls had different prices" rrat that's been rampant on /vt/. Either way, as nice as it is as viewers for the girls to keep their IP, I feel like selling it to them might actually be scummier than just retiring the model... definitely feels like one last "fuck you" from Eri to do this so soon after Kawaii seemingly gave it out for free to their girls.
I dunno, I feel like you guys probably have another multi week, 30+ page game of kick the admin in you. He doesn't fully have the life in his eyes extinguished yet like Lowtax or Null.
I will torture the jannie as much as I want rei, 'tis my god given right to put an end to such reckless vagueposting.
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