If you have enough funds, you can buy yourself into a permanently profitable position. It's just a question of how much money it took to get there. They're definitely here to stay, or at least have the funds to get in the game.
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Idol Corp - Sniffing out the most golden and smoky controversies in the vtubing industry.
- Thread starter Kalion
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If you have enough funds, you can buy yourself into a permanently profitable position. It's just a question of how much money it took to get there. They're definitely here to stay, or at least have the funds to get in the game.
That will take a few days as they need to go over what Brave is offering. However, menace is probably going to dip, given how much she has been investing in her other account.
Imagine having to sell your business because you're the only Jew who can't run a business and make a profit.
Brave now has
Not included is Idol's upcoming gen, though whether that one still happens is up in the air.
Compare to Holo
That's right, boys and girls. Nijisanji EN has less members than Brave's various EN projects.
- 83 JP (Seven Projects)
- 36 EN (Three Projects)
- 5 ES (One of EN's three projects, because ES doesn't deserve a project on its own)
Not included is Idol's upcoming gen, though whether that one still happens is up in the air.
Compare to Holo
- 52 JP
- 29 EN
- 9 ID
That's right, boys and girls. Nijisanji EN has less members than Brave's various EN projects.
Mizrahi, pls understand.
I think you're counting Globie as EN, right? Brave themselves seem to be counting geographically, saying they have 26 talents in their US branch.
By my reckoning, that's 8 in V4Mirai plus 18 in Idol (13 EN, 5 ES). I guess this means Idol management will now be based in the US rather than Israel.
I guess VSPO EN is not under their US branch.
Yeah, Globie as EN.
Although I think I might have missed VSPO! EN altogether.
Although I think I might have missed VSPO! EN altogether.
The point about people comparing them to Embracer feels inappropriate. Embracer spent money to acquire all these companies, funded their projects, and then were vulnerable to flops, which cascaded across all those companies because they never had a strong pillar to support their fuckups.
Meanwhile the only real events causing Brave to lose money is acquiring the branches and funding their debuts/launch. Most of these projects, despite their size, are likely running with net operating cash flows in the black by the end of year 2. Even the relatively small branches like Globie are potentially operating in the black as a lot of vtubers that aren't super successful are doing it as a side job, which is less of a burden on Brave than Embracer having to support the salaries of numerous dev teams.
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Which is the really bad part of vtubing: With 20k or so you can just debut a bunch of girls and let them passively generate income and work themselves to death while you do basically nothing, vtubing honestly can be done with 0 operating costs apart from the initial investment.
I like how everyone thinks idol is in the red while globie and every other company is in the green.
1. Brave provides way more than debut for their talents. For example they just hold a 3d concert for v4mirai. And they even paid ironmouse and kson to be there. I don't think brave will stop giving out these (3d concerts and 3d model for the talents)
This is great for the talents. But there is no world where they are operating in the green.
2. They are using fundraiser money, i.e. scamming billionaires, not their own. Those billionaire wants to see hololive level revenue after a set amount of time. Not being barely at the green.
3. They are also building physical offices for literally everything under the sun. And not the cheap 1 room office kind. Tower office building kind. Even places that they have had 0 vtuber in.
They are building an office in thailand for example.
Edit: my bad they did debut a few thai vtuber last week. That being said the building were started in like 2023.
4. If you look at their home page. There is so much metaverse grifting in it, it's really hard to think of it as not a scam in some way.
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Did you forget the HE talents?
Fishman said he started his company with about 50k and he was in the red for a while but he's positive net cash flow. Obviously the cost of investment has increased over time but when you have an apparatus of numerous branches passively generating income, it's more like one of those idle income generator games.
The only real accusations of Idol being in the red are the refunds on donothons but that's likely not enough to nuke their cash flow. Nowhere in my statement did I state that Idol is in the red, if anything they're horribly mismanaged.
Yes, but the only branch that got 3D super early to my knowledge is V4Mirai. I don't follow globie but I don't believe any of them have received 3D models yet despite their first gen being out for nearly 8 months. Meanwhile if you look at V4Mirai, Gen 3 is getting their 3D debut in less than 4 months. The fact that they threw extra money at V4Mirai shouldn't be surprising at all considering it was their tip of the spear for making a beachhead in the EN market. By all measure, that branch appears to have established itself with nearly all the girls at 30k+ subs and resting firmly in 3view territory.
These are venture capital investors, not your standard shareholders that have zero concept of time. They invest early and want to know their sizeable investments will have high ROI down the road. The company has been around since 2017 and they've seen notable growth in the industry. The fact that a lot of their growth is through M&A is likely not concerning to their investors since the company is first and foremost a holding company, they're doing literally what they are designated to do.
They debuted an all male vtuber unit in Thailand this week through AStars production called "Chrono Prince" and they've all got 10k+ subs.
Literally every single company is doing this, regardless of whether they're actually following through with it. This is just SOP for IR right now.
Included in EN.
Which is what Idol did, too, with the rebranding to Idol Origins.
I still missed a bunch of things, mind you. A Brave Group chart would be handy, but quickly outdated and might accidentally summon a great old one.
In his most recent public appearance, aka Filian interview, he's also said that the costs have gone up substantially since then and that sum is no longer enough.
In that same interview he's said that Phase was profitable("in the black" was the exact quote IIRC), avoiding details, and him and Lumi commented on Phase's 2023 commission expenses being in "high six figures" - which i suppose isn't too surprising, in 2023 they commissioned a total of 13 brand-new models, among everything else.
Ironically, i think the above information is the most that's publicly available about any small corpo's finances, outside of that one VAllure chick posting her earnings a few days ago.
haha nice jest
To me Brave looks like Robin Hood operation, they scam boomer investors out of their money to sponsor young entertainers. They're probably in red just from operation costs, nevermind all the acquisitions and offices.
Phase seems to be self-sustained now, not sure about debt-free.
Vshojo - no idea really, probably swinging around black line, they really need more people to turn stable profit.
Holo is well-rounded and printing money.
NIji is sustained afloat literally by a handful of JP streamers, bubble is very burstable.
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What contract did LM exactly review I wonder? Was it the Idol Invaders/ES contract or the Brave Group post-merger contract for all of Idol Corp? I guess the transparency and contract reveal will be a no-go by now.
LM really took an L with that one, huh?
Anyway, it's all irrelevant now. Andrew can show his draft, but it'll be purely theoretical "it'd be cool if". Idol contracts are as good dissolved at a moment (maybe even actually legally dissolved), because Brave have their own contracts.
Or LM actually was brought on to help with that chunk of International M&A as a fairly cheap entry point advisor. While cheaping out on Lawyers can normally go badly, when International acquisitions, getting anything cheap is a steal.
Opens up an interesting timeline, actually.
