The Termination of Zaion LanZa

[hololive ruined /jp/]

. Also, it's Latinx just so you know.

It's akshully latine, changito

 

[nooternun]

Maybe someone can help me out. Whose cover did she promote?

 

[SZ 109]

Jurisdiction:
Should be obvious, but JP law doesn’t apply to US citizens living in the US in the same way Sharia law doesn’t. This would be a major issue if the contracts weren’t tailored for jurisdiction that the talent is under.

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Non-compete:
Should be outright not enforceable in CA.
Text: (CA BPC Contracts in Restraint of Trade 16600)

Except as provided in this chapter, every contract by which anyone is restrained from engaging in a lawful profession, trade, or business of any kind is to that extent void.

Opinion: https://archive.is/gB8SL

What Happens if the Non-Compete Was Signed in a State Outside California?
California law prohibits employers, including those who operate out of state but employ California residents, from enforcing non compete agreements. If a non-compete agreement is made in another state or includes a choice-of-law provision requiring enforcement of the agreement to be governed by the laws of another state, California will not enforce choice-of-law provisions where it violates California’s public policy.

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NDA:
Given NDAs are intended for actual confidential agreement (such as trade secrets) and not just everything and anything, the most likely pitfall is that the contract signed is too broad, or doesn’t include the necessary exceptions required by CA law, which might cause issues with enforcement.

Text: (CA LAB General Occupations 232.5)

No employer may do any of the following:
(a) Require, as a condition of employment, that an employee refrain from disclosing information about the employer s working conditions.
(...)
(d) This section is not intended to permit an employee to disclose proprietary information, trade secret information, or information that is otherwise subject to a legal privilege without the consent of his or her employer.

Text: (CA GOV Unlawful Practices 12964.5)

(b) (1) (A) It is an unlawful employment practice for an employer or former employer to include in any agreement related to an employee’s separation from employment any provision that prohibits the disclosure of information about unlawful acts in the workplace.

(B) A nondisparagement or other contractual provision that restricts an employee’s ability to disclose information related to conditions in the workplace shall include, in substantial form, the following language: “Nothing in this agreement prevents you from discussing or disclosing information about unlawful acts in the workplace, such as harassment or discrimination or any other conduct that you have reason to believe is unlawful.”

(2) Any provision in violation of paragraph (1) is against public policy and shall be unenforceable.

Opinion: Archive

Example: The following non-disparagement clause would be unlawful under Government Code section 12964.5: “Employee agrees that she will not make any statement, directly or indirectly, verbally or in writing, that would cause harm or embarrassment to the Company.”

Opinion: (Not CA, but rough idea stands) https://archive.ph/0obuT

Most jurisdictions will decline to enforce an overbroad definition of "confidential information." To that end, an Illinois court refused to enforce an NDA that sought to protect against the disclosure of information concerning "any methods and manners by which Employer leases, rents, sells, finances, or deals with its products and its customers." (Trailer Leasing Co. v. Associates Commercial Corp., 1996 WL 392135, at *1 (N.D.Ill. July 10, 1996)).

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Defamation:
It's probably not going to actually work out as long as the statement aren't just outright lies, even though it might stick from the JP perspective since:

Text: JP Penal code Article 230, TL from https://archive.ph/6yQ9L

A person who defames another person by making allegations in public, regardless of whether such facts are true or false (...)

Although according to Article 2 and 3 of the same text, for those outside JP, the defamation law only applies to Japanese Nationals.

To elaborate on the definition on "actual malice",

Opinion: https://archive.ph/D9uta

the target of the statement must show that it was made with knowledge of or reckless disregard for its falsity. Brennan used the term "actual malice" to summarize this standard, although he did not intend the usual meaning of a malicious purpose. In libel law, “malice” had meant knowledge or gross recklessness rather than intent, since courts found it difficult to imagine that someone would knowingly disseminate false information without a bad intent.

Opinion: https://archive.ph/0O2O1

The Sullivan court stated that "actual malice" means that the defendant said the defamatory statement "with knowledge that it was false or with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not." The Sullivan court also held that when the standard is actual malice, the plaintiff must prove actual malice by "clear and convincing" evidence, rather than the usual burden of proof in a civil case, which is the preponderance of the evidence standard.

 

[Punished Anime Discusser]

We've basically HAD this version of this discussion in the past too. Granted, both were on Kiwifarms. But if you go back and look at the discussion surrounding Coco/Kson leaving, and Rushia getting shitcanned, there was A LOT of questioning if Hololive made the right decision and what more they could have done. We've absolutely torn into Cover when they've deserved it. So for anyone to actually think we're a bunch of Nijisanji haters and never rag on anyone else is just batshit insane.

We have been shitting on Vesper's manager, and Hololive's single perms slave for the past six months too.

 

[The Scream Guy]

There was a post about it on NijiReddit earlier, but seems like it was deleted. Actually didn't have that much coping, just being disappointed, but I didn't keep checking up on it or anything.

Edit: Found the post. Doesn't look like it's removed at all actually, maybe I just don't know how to navigate Reddit.

mfw

Nijisanji is the China of vtuber companies.

Duh, no wonder vox fucking panders to them

I don't know why I need to be brought up in this. I know your post came before mine, but I would at least like to think that I position myself as somewhat critical of the company and talents when it actually matters. My criteria on that doesn't broadly cover every little thing, is all.

You're not going to get me to engage with 'discussion' about Hex holding a censored dildo asset as some kind of ToS-breaking yab as if Coco didn't spend the last 10 months of her career plastering a plush tail buttplug over her streams and shoving one into Marine in 3D, for example.

Even if my opinions aren't universally agreed with or are challenged, that doesn't make them unreasonable. If you disagree, you're free to do so; I disagree with a lot of you but I don't single you out as some kind of problem in the forum.

If you don't want to hear perspectives from people who predominantly watch Niji and don't grab all their info from /vt/ greentexts and OOC clips then just say so.

Holy shit it's him. It's the guy from the memes! I'm sorry for making fun of Niji. There really are some talented people in niji and not all of them deserve to be ridiculed as mostly/entirely this isn't even their fault it's managements. Apologies

I missed that part. But I think that makes Niji look worse. Producing merch for her past life should only be an issue if she was contractually required to cease activity on it or cease certain types of activity. If that is in her contract - no one forced her to sign it, but it feeds into "Niji wants to cut them off from their past lives". Another thing is that if it is in her contract, management could just say that was a breach of contract, instead of "interpreting" it as wanting to jump ship.

Your pfp is cute, gib lui art pls!

It's funny. I actually vaguely considered auditioning for NijiEN at one point. It was an extremely casual notion that never even got as far as filling out the online application.

I'm glad it ended there.

Also, the idea that Nijisanji uses Discord for all their private communication is hysterical. This is objectively the worst way to do things. It's insane that such a large company would do this.

If I ever for some reason take an icepick to the tearduct and am brain-damaged enough to want to start a company myself, one of the main rules will be a complete ban on all official uses of Discord. Play with fire all you want on your private accounts; not one official communication goes through Discord, ever. Breaching this rule is a firing offense.

proctor vtuber when?

Anykara stocks go down like my cousin's syndrome 2.5 MILLION views? When the market opens monday they might legitimately be fucked

 

[Thomas Talus]

Jurisdiction:
Should be obvious, but JP law doesn’t apply to US citizens living in the US in the same way Sharia law doesn’t. This would be a major issue if the contracts weren’t tailored for jurisdiction that the talent is under.

Sharia law can apply for certain civil issues as a form of arbitration if both sides agree to it.

On the one hand, I would expect a contract drafted by a competent foreign company to contain jdx/venue/CoL clauses in their favor.

On the other hand, Nijisanji.

ETA: CA might not enforce a foreign judgment that goes against the citations that SZ mentioned, though.

 

[DelusionTree]

Anykara stocks go down like my cousin's syndrome 2.5 MILLION views? When the market opens monday they might legitimately be fucked

How much traction this story has on Japanese social media, vtuber blogs and 5ch so far?

 

[Tyrvalla]

Anykara stocks go down like my cousin's syndrome 2.5 MILLION views? When the market opens monday they might legitimately be fucked

Eh not really, only when this story is picked up by major publication then their stock price goes down. People in finance don't care about this kind of thing, they care about profit above all else and Zaion is not a household name even in Nijisanji.

 

[Disappointment]

Your meme game is weaker than Elon Musk's. Truly a latino poster: obnoxious, relying on decades old memes and fundamentally incapable of adding something of value to the conversation, even when trading insults

Excuse me but latino weebs are fucking great. Calm yourself.

 

[Scoots]

Actually that made me think, are any of the Niji Livers as active in their PL accounts as alot of Holos are and were? Kson streamed when she was still Coco, Irys and Kronii still have active patreons with streams, KKKaren has active projects and merch, Noel has her porn ASMRs, Kiara did a couple keeki streams playing chink shit like Arknights, Azki still does concerts in person doesnt she? IIRC choco and mel even collabed with Kson a bit after she left holo as fleshtubers, and they both have a semi-monetized PL presence

I wonder if that is indeed Niji policy or some sort of flib by management, or Sayu twisting something in her favour, its wierd that the only other company we've seen that explicitly makes any sort of outside monetization verboten was WACTOR.

I know Millie still had one or two sadposts pop up as Lyrica thanks to Feb 14th, and Kyo being a retard on his personal twitter with Zaion, but i have no idea if Niji has anything similar to what i talked about with Holo

This was my question as far as I know Hana is the only double dipper and she is ID so likely has a dif contract

Maybe someone can help me out. Whose cover did she promote?

I imagine Ren's blue sugar high was it specified that it was a cover? That said I don't think Ren is at all to blame for the bonk it's likely management just saw it as taking potential views and Ren (or whoever it was had no say in the matter)

Edit: it was a cover I forget which one had a cover at the beginning Maria maybe

Edit 2: it is only now I realize that I have mistaken Ren and Maria for Xsolel when they are Iluna
Did Meloco have a debut cover?

Edit 3: it was Kotoka

 

[Piarro]

So for anyone to actually think we're a bunch of Nijisanji haters and never rag on anyone else is just batshit insane.

I don't think anyone thinks we don't criticize other companies when they fuck up, but for Nijisanji specifically there are very few fans of them that post here compared to all of the posts about Hololive, Phase Connect, and other indies that are discussed, so it can often feel like we criticize Nijisanji more than other companies when it's actually just that we post positively about Niji less.

Right now, the situation looks bad for Nijisanji's management but at the same time it seems very obvious that Sayu/Zaion has left out at least some of what went on, either because she can't or she won't.

Ver Vermillion response

I am electing to ignore Finana's statement (that's not what gaslighting is), but Ver had mostly positive things to say about Zaion herself and still said that he thinks that the termination was ultimately necessary. This could just be damage control for management but if there is more to Zaion's misconduct that we don't know about and the livers do, there would be no reason for Sayu to include that information in her statement. Ball is in Nijisanji's court to respond with more information.

I think we can safely assume that NijiEN management are screwups but that doesn't mean that Zaion did nothing wrong. "Streamer brain" isn't an excuse for the joke she made.

 

[returntomonke]

Ok my take here is that the ball is fully on AnyColor side.
I can understand that a corpo needs a structure and anytime a link is added to formalize control, it makes it weaker if it is left alone.
The harassment part is what strikes first and uncovers Anycolor's hypocrisy, Making a public announcement to protect talents from harassment, and then turning around and leaving Zaion to deal with it just paints them as hypocritic self-righteous fucks.
Most of the issues listed come right down to miscommunication, and I could write a wall of text on how inept management is but I'll save you the read, just know that Anycolor playing favorites with their cash cows has muddled the line of what talent can get away with, There's many examples of double standards, things listed as reason to end Zion's contract that other Members got away with, the clearest example is the rape joke.
Zion making a SA joke is not a minor issue, saying "I was in streamer mode" is not an excuse, apologizing and taking a suspension like a champ is what must be done. However, Vox got away with it.
Clear lines and punishments for inappropriate comments and actions are something that must be enforced company-wide even if the talent is bringing boatloads of money because under scrutiny this will fuck you up HARD, everyone loves to point out double standards and this will be something that will hurt you PR wise when you need it the most, such as now

 

[niggaphil]

I think we can safely assume that NijiEN management are screwups but that doesn't mean that Zaion did nothing wrong. "Streamer brain" isn't an excuse for the joke she made.

Zaion must be do something really stupid behind the scene, where we don't actually know (Of course to protect her self). Her current document is obviously counter what nijisanji shits pinned on her, and also indirectly exposed the fucked up management. Some of the points are obviously Zaion fault (which she admit, kudos). But some are obviously management issue. The main nuke of this document is how nijisanji perform their recruitment process, their business model that sounds like ponchi scheme (join us you will get rich, but first you need to open you wallet) and will directly spergout and force stealth suspension to the talents.

As I mention earlier in this thread, before this document we actually have zero evidences, therefore most of the stupid rrats discussed in this forum, twitter or /vt/ are fake news. But now? Treat Nijisanji talents' twitter activity and the company event (*ahem AR concert due to covid *ahem) with speculation.

Edit: Unless Nijisanji release full statement on actual reason why Zaion was fired, the current shit that they explained are really weak and double standard (as mentioned by multiple people before). Right now I would like to see how Niji the management continue to fuck itself out instead of nijiEN talents doing stupid shit.

 

[returntomonke]

Excuse me but latino weebs are fucking great. Calm yourself.

I do not wish to derail the thread, but this is a friendly reminder that when it comes to Dragon Ball, LatAm is on point with that shit.
I vividly remember Mexican bars were promoting the event like it was an actual boxing match. And the Mexican government ignored Bandai and illegally projected the chapter on the town's squares because people DEMANDED to see it live.

 

[Goon]

So for anyone to actually think we're a bunch of Nijisanji haters and never rag on anyone else is just batshit insane.

I am tho from now on i'll watch every liver in the hopes that the curse i have is real and that it'll finish the job for my beloved Matsuri-san

 

[PleaseCheckYourReceipts]

@SZ 109 when it was established that Sayu was in CA, basically the only part of an NDA that would be functionally enforceable is Trade Secrets. Having seen the go-around with Tech types and NDAs, that's the only stuff that's worth attempting to enforce.

What's going to be interesting is what happens on Monday. Most of the higher ups at Nijisanji will have been drunk for a week. And there's one super important thing to always remember when dealing with groups of Japanese: their inter-personal baseline has never left Middle School. You know how Western groups can descend into basically High School Redux? Where company employees are either greedy bastards or horny on main? Yeah, the Japanese do something different. It was explained to me it was like Middle School, but, until you observe it, it's a little hard to believe. But it's exactly what happens. Everything gets petty and it's clear almost no one has proper confliction resolution skills. (If you wonder why Japan is the way it is, this is a lot of the reason.) But, for us, this could be hilarious, because it's almost assured they're going to lash out at Sayu. Which might actually be the point of the document. We'll have to see.

 

[reinigen]

@SZ 109 when it was established that Sayu was in CA, basically the only part of an NDA that would be functionally enforceable is Trade Secrets. Having seen the go-around with Tech types and NDAs, that's the only stuff that's worth attempting to enforce.

What's going to be interesting is what happens on Monday. Most of the higher ups at Nijisanji will have been drunk for a week. And there's one super important thing to always remember when dealing with groups of Japanese: their inter-personal baseline has never left Middle School. You know how Western groups can descend into basically High School Redux? Where company employees are either greedy bastards or horny on main? Yeah, the Japanese do something different. It was explained to me it was like Middle School, but, until you observe it, it's a little hard to believe. But it's exactly what happens. Everything gets petty and it's clear almost no one has proper confliction resolution skills. (If you wonder why Japan is the way it is, this is a lot of the reason.) But, for us, this could be hilarious, because it's almost assured they're going to lash out at Sayu. Which might actually be the point of the document. We'll have to see.

I swear to god if there's a lawsuit and it goes to discovery, the popcorn vaults will open at full bore.

 

[Nenélove]

@SZ 109 when it was established that Sayu was in CA, basically the only part of an NDA that would be functionally enforceable is Trade Secrets. Having seen the go-around with Tech types and NDAs, that's the only stuff that's worth attempting to enforce.

What's going to be interesting is what happens on Monday. Most of the higher ups at Nijisanji will have been drunk for a week. And there's one super important thing to always remember when dealing with groups of Japanese: their inter-personal baseline has never left Middle School. You know how Western groups can descend into basically High School Redux? Where company employees are either greedy bastards or horny on main? Yeah, the Japanese do something different. It was explained to me it was like Middle School, but, until you observe it, it's a little hard to believe. But it's exactly what happens. Everything gets petty and it's clear almost no one has proper confliction resolution skills. (If you wonder why Japan is the way it is, this is a lot of the reason.) But, for us, this could be hilarious, because it's almost assured they're going to lash out at Sayu. Which might actually be the point of the document. We'll have to see.

You sound quite knowledgeable on figures of law, I don't sperg out about it much on here (mostly to contain my powerlevel) but I can appreciate meeting another lawfag.

 

[PleaseCheckYourReceipts]

You sound quite knowledgeable on figures of law, I don't sperg out about it much on here (mostly to contain my powerlevel) but I can appreciate meeting another lawfag.

I don't work in law, I just have had to deal with a lot of it. And I just have a large collection of contacts over the years in Tech. Also, filings in American Courts are some of the highest forms of Comedy around. There's a reason it can sustain an entire section of YT creators.

 

[kestraline]

Well, at least the Corpo is not shitty enough to use LINE/WECHAT to discuss work or meeting. In my work place, I was plagued with these social media app, so that the retarded manager could contact me in the midnight for emergency shit. Fuck LINE

If you think that's bad, at my work the boss has an obsession with WhatsApp and is pushing customers to use that instead of, you know, improving the ticketing system. Want a screenshot of an issue? Here's a bad camera picture of a computer screen instead. WhatsApp can't replace a fucking ticket system, it isn't capable of that. And if the WhatsApp instance gets signed out randomly, you have to wait for the QR code to get scanned again.