Termination of Selen Tatsuki and the Glorious Revival of Dokibird

[Nenélove]

Well idol culture is cancer. It's slowly healing, but it's still cancer.

Nah it isn't one thing or another or good or bad, the only difference comes from application and how exploitative the agency is.

 

[Negzana]

For me, idol culture in vtubing just means wanting to improve in a talent whether it's singing or gaming, no politics or religion or vermintide, and rely on improv comedy rather than lewdtube/female "comedian" comedy. Don't care for unifags or "idol culture is fascist evul" nonsense, the girls are best when healthily limited and forced to be creative and cerebral with their entertainment.

 

[Euthyphro]

YouTube algorithm has been guiding people to other NijiEN Livers' PLs for the past few days, almost certainly because of the engagement this whole Selen/Dokibird saga has gotten:

I've never really watched Maria, so this was a surprise to me. Maybe YouTube is subtly nudging her to jump from the yacht too.
Edit: Some noombers:

Edit 2: Got this just now:

I imagine active Niji watchers are getting a lot of interesting recommendations right now.

 

[Awoogers]

Idol culture is as brutal as it is entertaining

People who goes "idol culture bad" is something a tourist says when all they see is this drama and not the other success stories that idols have produced over the years

It's still entertainment and most of the bad flaks that people know come from scummy agencies and such

 

[Nenélove]

For me, idol culture in vtubing just means wanting to improve in a talent whether it's singing or gaming, no politics or religion or vermintide, and rely on improv comedy rather than lewdtube/female "comedian" comedy. Don't care for unifags or "idol culture is fascist evul" nonsense, the girls are best when healthily limited and forced to be creative and cerebral with their entertainment.

I don't disagree... but I can't say actual idol agencies aren't some of the most exploitative workplaces on earth apart from sulfur mines. Though shitting on "idol culture" when talking about Nijisanji like assmongoloid and co. did is retarded, since Niji has always, since their inception 5 years ago now, been known as the "just regular old streamers" company as opposed to "we wanna be like AKB48" Hololive and it shows a complete (yet unsurprising) lack of knowledge about anything in this industry.
Neither viewpoint is right or wrong, as with most things the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[MerelyTourist]

She want to do ONE keycap... girl... If HYTE don't jump up for full set i don't know...

 

[roktofferson]

i struggle to understand how someone sees what is essentially a company casting a role for a character whose design and model they paid for as exploitative because they continue to own the character they paid for.

 

[Scoots]

I don't disagree... but I can't say actual idol agencies aren't some of the most exploitative workplaces on earth apart from sulfur mines. Though shitting on "idol culture" when talking about Nijisanji like assmongoloid and co. did is retarded, since Niji has always, since their inception 5 years ago now, been known as the "just regular old streamers" company as opposed to "we wanna be like AKB48" Hololive and it shows a complete (yet unsurprising) lack of knowledge about anything in this industry.
Neither viewpoint is right or wrong, as with most things the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Nux said something I agree with
Holo: advertises their talents like they are an idol company
Nijisanji: treats their talents like they are an idol company

 

[Negzana]

i struggle to understand how someone sees what is essentially a company casting a role for a character whose design and model they paid for as exploitative because they continue to own the character they paid for.

It only gets murky with chuubas like Suisei or especially Yuri who own/owned their character, and it sucks when a terminated vtuber is unpersoned and their character is basically callously executed (Especially in Selen's case)

 

[roktofferson]

Nux said something I agree with

I'm so sorry this happened to you

 

[MerelyTourist]

i struggle to understand how someone sees what is essentially a company casting a role for a character whose design and model they paid for as exploitative because they continue to own the character they paid for.

Because it's not character that bring value, it's person behind it and nothing else. The most exploitative part is NDA that forbid you to acknowledge that it was/is you. This doesn't exist anywhere else in entertainment.

 

[Nenélove]

Nux said something I agree with
Holo: advertises their talents like they are an idol company
Nijisanji: treats their talents like they are an idol company

Not really, he's falsely equating "idol company" with "black company" which is a popular nonsense idea that many westoids have. While A LOT of idol groups in Japan are abusive and have unfair treatment, that doesn't mean one should tar everyone with the same brush. That leads to trash takes like "well Niji did bad so all japanese corpos must also be bad".

i struggle to understand how someone sees what is essentially a company casting a role for a character whose design and model they paid for as exploitative because they continue to own the character they paid for.

It all comes down to cultural perspectives, in japan this sort of arrangement is perfectly fine because companies are much more respected.
In the west companies are universally hated and maligned, the individual is always put first, people root for underdogs and generally dislike supporting those who already have plenty of fame and recognition. Individual liberty such as going around saying "I WORKED FOR HOLOLIVE HIRE ME NOWWWWWWWWWWWW!" is seen as nothing but positive in the west, so depriving someone of that is seen as nothing short of corporate oppression.

I don't mind this system because when a person gets graduated the company ALSO looses that IP and that revenue so it's not just the performer that gets fucked over. I have always believed that the day that "graduation means that the character is dead" stops being a thing then corporate vtubing will truly become abusive. I don't think Hololive's higherups rejoiced having to kill off two of their biggest earners one after another and loosing out on millions of dollars of potential revenue...

 

[bothyourhouses]

i struggle to understand how someone sees what is essentially a company casting a role for a character whose design and model they paid for as exploitative because they continue to own the character they paid for.

Keeping ownership of the character is ok. Not crediting the person who's not only the voice actor but also the de facto "writer" for most of the content (even if only under a pseudonym) is not. That wouldn't be acceptable in animé or music or even videogame production and it shouldn't be acceptable in vtubing.

 

[Sankisei]

Because it's not character that bring value, it's person behind it and nothing else. The most exploitative part is NDA that forbid you to acknowledge that it was/is you. This doesn't exist anywhere else in entertainment.

Keeping ownership of the character is ok. Not crediting the person who's not only the voice actor but also the de facto "writer" for most of the content (even if only under a pseudonym) is not. That wouldn't be acceptable in animé or music or even videogame production and it shouldn't be acceptable in vtubing.

Yeah this guy deserves all the credit for all the amazing things he did for Nijisanji

 

[The Rratarded Alt]

Well idol culture is cancer. It's slowly healing, but it's still cancer.

I used to openly have this opinion when I first got into Holo, but I have done a 180 on it. The bad stuff gets seens the most from an outside point of view, but shit like what Nijisanji does and relationship bans are not a core part of idol culture. Nijisanji doesn't even claim to be an idol company and Hololive clearly treats their people much better.

 

[Brosnan Pierce Brosnan]

I used to openly have this opinion when I first got into Holo, but I have done a 360 on it. The bad stuff gets seens the most from an outside point of view, but shit like what Nijisanji does and relationship bans are not a core part of idol culture. Nijisanji doesn't even claim to be an idol company and Hololive clearly treats their people much better.

 

[The Rratarded Alt]

Yeah, I know. Thought I snuck the edit in before someone noticed

 

[Awoogers]

I used to openly have this opinion when I first got into Holo, but I have done a 180 on it. The bad stuff gets seens the most from an outside point of view, but shit like what Nijisanji does and relationship bans are not a core part of idol culture. Nijisanji doesn't even claim to be an idol company and Hololive clearly treats their people much better.

Yeah that's what's weird to me as well is these people pushing that niji did an idol approach

Retards they were advertised as streamers they literally have the name LIVERS in their talents whereas holo has IDOLS written on it

Fuckers would rather go on a common rag than read for a few seconds to identify which is which

 

[Nenélove]

View attachment 63443
Yeah this guy deserves all the credit for all the amazing things he did for Nijisanji

While really funny, this IS a cherrypicked example.

 

[Tubedude]

Yeah that's what's weird to me as well is these people pushing that niji did an idol approach

Retards they were advertised as streamers they literally have the name LIVERS in their talents whereas holo has IDOLS written on it

Fuckers would rather go on a common rag than read for a few seconds to identify which is which

I mean what do you expect of tourists? They only barely tangentially know of Hololive, and go "Oh, Japanese and Idol". Then they hear about Nijisanji which is also Japanese and has bad working conditions, so they just go "Must be idol too, fuck idol culture".