General Thread v4mirai: Brought to you by Brave

[Superduper Samurai]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0148296324004557

Some chink published yet another paper on vtubing, this time actually fully public so that I don't have to fucking pay to read something I already know. Skimmed through it, mostly a bunch of "take something simple and make it complicated and impossible to understand so that academics take it seriously" crap.

Vtubing is in large part a cultural phenomenon, not just economics or technology, trying to describe it by establishing a bunch of arbitrary classifications and then using maths to calculate how those work is an exercise in futility.


Todd sama please take 5 seconds to read, this is about Vreverie.

0/10 they didnt use the highly esteemed Shark, Minnow, or Jellyfish qualifications

 

[Hotdogs Aplenty]

Banned again, not able to archive atm but

 

[Svarog]

Bam playing Dwarf Fortress


Fatum Ruptor playing FNaF 4

Twitch link

Lollime playing Batman: Arkham City


Panko playing Balatro

 

[God's Strongest Wardog]

Banned again, not able to archive atm but

Oh no.

Daiya's playing OverBlood.

 

[Brosnan Pierce Brosnan]

Todd over here giving Moth a run for his money over his inability to scroll up

 

[Todd's Strongest Howard]

Todd sama please take 5 seconds to read

No. I unironically have better things to do than read tweets from nobodies to figure out the new meaningless shit of the day. I skip pages at a time because it's filled with this inane drivel about nothingcorps. The only time I see this shit is when it's on the current last page of the thread when I get to it.

 

[VSoyBoy]

I'm white.

 

[Azehara]

dead by the end of the year

Hopefully dead by the end of the month. They will realize their fuckup, hide and then try again in a few months. Calling it. These roaches never learn.

Not-Reimu complain about a man spreading his leg that looks like he wants some action inside an airplane.

Spoiler

Problem would fix itself if she opened her mouth and complained instead of being a passive aggressive bitch that just tweets about it.

Banned again, not able to archive atm but

Twitch doing Twitch things it seems.

 

[Hff201]

but this didn't really register in the minds of the community.

This is the crux of it, a lot of people talking about IP ownership genuinely do not get it. When you're trying to run a sustainable corpo without putting yourself in a hole doing so, there will be times where you have to be the bad guy. That's the reality of the situation; making everyone feel good all the time does not generate revenue, at best it makes your corpo a stepping stone with no identity of its own that talents use to buy time while hoping they get into VShojo one day, at worst it bankrupts you while your name is dragged through the mud because the people you were trying to please all had different expectations.

A good business arrangement is one that is mutually beneficial, which corporate vtubing is. The talent has their upfront costs (model and rigging etc.) paid for, and is marketed to an audience that likely wouldn't find them otherwise. The corporation builds up a portfolio of intellectual property which holds value, and opens more opportunities for them and the talents signed under them as a whole. This is agreed upon, and if both parties willingly signed the contract, it can be assumed they were both on board with it. It's a glorified work-for-hire in a way, which is not dissimilar to how most of the entertainment industry functions.

The "holding value" part is important even for corpos on the verge of closure, because there are likely still outstanding costs, and it's not like they can pay those off with the revenue share or sponsorships if the talents are no longer streaming. It's the vtuber corpo equivalent of a sole trader selling his car to pay off a loan when his business goes south, you need to find cash somewhere, and selling your assets is the easiest way to do it.

But the problem is, the loudest voices in this discussion are teenagers who have never had a job, let alone owned a business. Their idea of right and wrong is decided entirely by how things make them feel, rather than whether they work in practice - and if somebody gets upset at any point it's obviously the big bad CEO abusing everyone (even if the guy's severely ill and one of the talents affected isn't too bothered by the IP cost since she understands the CEO invested a lot of his own money into funding it). Indies can jump into the discourse to push their anti-corpo rhetoric because appealing to emotion is much easier to package into retweet-bait for clout than nuanced breakdowns of a company's financials and why things are the way they are, and then those same people will act sad all over again the next time another one of these Twitter-friendly "we keep nothing and give you everything" nothing-corpos falls apart after six months.

 

[Kalion]

Thought there would be more marketing or buildup for this but, NEW EMBER OUTFIT!:

 

[Azehara]

This is the crux of it, a lot of people talking about IP ownership genuinely do not get it. When you're trying to run a sustainable corpo without putting yourself in a hole doing so, there will be times where you have to be the bad guy. That's the reality of the situation; making everyone feel good all the time does not generate revenue, at best it makes your corpo a stepping stone with no identity of its own that talents use to buy time while hoping they get into VShojo one day, at worst it bankrupts you while your name is dragged through the mud because the people you were trying to please all had different expectations.

A good business arrangement is one that is mutually beneficial, which corporate vtubing is. The talent has their upfront costs (model and rigging etc.) paid for, and is marketed to an audience that likely wouldn't find them otherwise. The corporation builds up a portfolio of intellectual property which holds value, and opens more opportunities for them and the talents signed under them as a whole. This is agreed upon, and if both parties willingly signed the contract, it can be assumed they were both on board with it. It's a glorified work-for-hire in a way, which is not dissimilar to how most of the entertainment industry functions.

The "holding value" part is important even for corpos on the verge of closure, because there are likely still outstanding costs, and it's not like they can pay those off with the revenue share or sponsorships if the talents are no longer streaming. It's the vtuber corpo equivalent of a sole trader selling his car to pay off a loan when his business goes south, you need to find cash somewhere, and selling your assets is the easiest way to do it.

But the problem is, the loudest voices in this discussion are teenagers who have never had a job, let alone owned a business. Their idea of right and wrong is decided entirely by how things make them feel, rather than whether they work in practice - and if somebody gets upset at any point it's obviously the big bad CEO abusing everyone (even if the guy's severely ill and one of the talents affected isn't too bothered by the IP cost since she understands the CEO invested a lot of his own money into funding it). Indies can jump into the discourse to push their anti-corpo rhetoric because appealing to emotion is much easier to package into retweet-bait for clout than nuanced breakdowns of a company's financials and why things are the way they are, and then those same people will act sad all over again the next time another one of these Twitter-friendly "we keep nothing and give you everything" nothing-corpos falls apart after six months.

I still think the right thing to do is to sell these accounts off at a discount price and with the option of making it a monthly payment type deal instead of a lump sum. These girls barely make any money from these accounts (due to their size) and most dont even have 3k saved up. If the talents dont want it I guess it could be offered to the public.

I dont remember where it was that I saw it but someone had mentioned that the CEO was in the hospital in a coma or some shit. Seems to me like a rrat but I guess that would explain why people would be trying to sell off the IP as fast as possible (to pay hospital bills and the owner of said IP not being there to collect the money over time).

Thought there would be more marketing or buildup for this but, NEW EMBER OUTFIT!:

hope it has cleavage

 

[NeneLOVE]

This is the crux of it, a lot of people talking about IP ownership genuinely do not get it. When you're trying to run a sustainable corpo without putting yourself in a hole doing so, there will be times where you have to be the bad guy. That's the reality of the situation; making everyone feel good all the time does not generate revenue, at best it makes your corpo a stepping stone with no identity of its own that talents use to buy time while hoping they get into VShojo one day, at worst it bankrupts you while your name is dragged through the mud because the people you were trying to please all had different expectations.

A good business arrangement is one that is mutually beneficial, which corporate vtubing is. The talent has their upfront costs (model and rigging etc.) paid for, and is marketed to an audience that likely wouldn't find them otherwise. The corporation builds up a portfolio of intellectual property which holds value, and opens more opportunities for them and the talents signed under them as a whole. This is agreed upon, and if both parties willingly signed the contract, it can be assumed they were both on board with it. It's a glorified work-for-hire in a way, which is not dissimilar to how most of the entertainment industry functions.

The "holding value" part is important even for corpos on the verge of closure, because there are likely still outstanding costs, and it's not like they can pay those off with the revenue share or sponsorships if the talents are no longer streaming. It's the vtuber corpo equivalent of a sole trader selling his car to pay off a loan when his business goes south, you need to find cash somewhere, and selling your assets is the easiest way to do it.

But the problem is, the loudest voices in this discussion are teenagers who have never had a job, let alone owned a business. Their idea of right and wrong is decided entirely by how things make them feel, rather than whether they work in practice - and if somebody gets upset at any point it's obviously the big bad CEO abusing everyone (even if the guy's severely ill and one of the talents affected isn't too bothered by the IP cost since she understands the CEO invested a lot of his own money into funding it). Indies can jump into the discourse to push their anti-corpo rhetoric because appealing to emotion is much easier to package into retweet-bait for clout than nuanced breakdowns of a company's financials and why things are the way they are, and then those same people will act sad all over again the next time another one of these Twitter-friendly "we keep nothing and give you everything" nothing-corpos falls apart after six months.

The current issues of the industry can definitely be traced back to the boom. It is undeniable to say that 2020 changed everything, it made vtubing seem very "chic" and like an easy-peasy way of being anonymous while racking in those billions. All of these young girls stuck in the weirdness of the education system during COVID and young techbros who were multiplying like rats during the emergence of the crypto/NFT bubble saw Holo and Vshojo and went "I can do that, it's super easy! It'll get me fame and money with almost no effort!" and thus we have the dozens of corpos started and staffed by idiots who don't know the first thing about running an agency having their shit implode and giving the whole industry a bad name.

I think it's fairly obvious that these near-constant agency failures have made people feel vindicated in their "industry is predatory and evil" mentality. I do wonder if the boom had not been so sudden maybe we would've had a slower burn on the industry's development, with agencies started by actual managers/back end professionals with some years of experience in the field instead of randos trying to coast off of Holo's fame in the west and failing en-masse, which has in itself created another wave of idiots with no experience who now want to "fix the industry" by subverting the tried and tested agency model and going the other way, which is barely "a model" and just consists of "hire the most popular indies/ex-corpos you can find and let them stream while skimming profit off the top". That shit is just machinima with vtubers and will end up failing too.

 

[Scoots]

Time​

Mila admires the fruits of her labor

 

[Willemshaven]

Sakuna gets a challenge to spin ten times and then stand on one leg.


Some translated segments from Hiyori Lara's last chatting stream:
Lara on previous times she considered quitting.


Like her oshi Aqua, Lara has to sign a bunch of signatures after her last stream.


Lara asks her fans to meet her again after 60 years, but she later dialed it back to 30 years.

 

[Moth Enjoyer V2]

3D Junar


I think they got bigger...




WHOA MAMA

 

[Faceless Waifu]

I don't usually do redditwatch but this reddit thread is so delulu it's actually hilarious
Starting off with a bang

Vtuber growth in ID is comparable to Japan, one day it will take over the ID internet!!!! You will see Kobo selling out the biggest ID concert revenue and do a nationwide tour soon!
Also fuck the flips! (Agreed to be honest)

ID is such a big and huge potential market. The floor is at $15 million a month! And it can even goes as high as $1.5 billion if everyone is spending $100 on merches!!!!

Meanwhile actual 2024 superchat stat. Moona how the fuck did you even lose to Uyu, Hololive's first and only 2-view?
This is who Moona was up against:

Bro had a 29 minutes long stream with only 52 people watching..... and it got killed by management anyway due yab. I'm actually surprised management still watches his stream to spot yab.

So proud being the best of the shithole countries. Next they say ID has the potential to surpass african countries!!

also whatever the fuck the comparison here, Jimmy O. Yang is far far far less popular than Joe Rogan.

I don't know why but I keep looking at the sarcastic tone you used for the post as you seething and not you making fun on the reddiots. No clue why.

Anyway, sarcasm aside, I don't really see the ID vtubing industry currently as "booming". It's more of a start, since the things like local ads and collab with local celebs/internet personalities are still relatively recent. For Hololive ID right now, it's currently Kobo and Kaela that gets the ID normie attentions, but as far as I know it, it's still "weeb shit" and still considered as fast-growing minorities among the ID netizens.

As for Raditya Dika himself, eh... he's okay. Comparison was pretty bad, but he's more or less a jack of all trades (Comedian, book author, Film Director/Writer, now podcaster). Just because Kobo and Kaela appeared on his podcast doesn't really mean that Hololive ID (and thus vtuber in ID) is booming, since on the comments on Kobo's episode at least, there are still people commenting about "whoa, Dika is talking to ANIME."

But then again, it is reddit. No idea why you had to focus on this particular one since it's what, some guy talking with Kaela with nothing much to say about it except "ID vtubing getting bigger, guys".
Anyway, here's the video link if anyone's curious (it's fully Indonesian though, so don't go around saying 'I CANT UNDERSTAND SHIET')

(title in EN is: "How do I shoot this?", which relates to the whole 2d talking to 3d thingie and Kaela is in her 3d model form)

What happened to Kobo? I thought she was popular?

You missed Reine who was right above Ollie.

Kobo is doing okay. It just that since Kobo is the one that most ID weebs (and honestly anything big involving HoloID at this point), Frz is using her as a example for his sarcastic-posting.

She did appear on the "Raditya Dika" guy mentioned in the reddit post screenshot before Kaela, though.

IIRC, some of the ID girls encouraged their audience in the past to use Streamlabs instead pf superchats in order to get around YouTube taking their cut out of those. So if that table is just a tally of superchat totals, then it's not really an accurate picture of their actual dono earnings.

Yeah its pretty much like that. I believe it was common practice back when YT Superchat isn't recognized for IDs, so either they have to use a way to make it sent superchat not as ID or using local/outside YT alternative. Even after superchat is available in ID, they still use it as secondary source of fans to donate to them, either because of special perks or features tied to it (example: AKA Virtual's ONShannon trakteer donations allows someone to play a video link when their dono is sent and received on stream) or because it's less of a hassle to do so (no need converting money or spending way too much compared to super chat).

So yeah, that pretty much means their actual donation earnings isn't really accurate if you focused on the superchats alone. You might need to go to their alternative earnings and combine it with the superchat to get a clear picture, but to some people that takes too much effort.

 

[Lurker McSpic]

This is the crux of it, a lot of people talking about IP ownership genuinely do not get it. When you're trying to run a sustainable corpo without putting yourself in a hole doing so, there will be times where you have to be the bad guy. That's the reality of the situation; making everyone feel good all the time does not generate revenue, at best it makes your corpo a stepping stone with no identity of its own that talents use to buy time while hoping they get into VShojo one day, at worst it bankrupts you while your name is dragged through the mud because the people you were trying to please all had different expectations.

A good business arrangement is one that is mutually beneficial, which corporate vtubing is. The talent has their upfront costs (model and rigging etc.) paid for, and is marketed to an audience that likely wouldn't find them otherwise. The corporation builds up a portfolio of intellectual property which holds value, and opens more opportunities for them and the talents signed under them as a whole. This is agreed upon, and if both parties willingly signed the contract, it can be assumed they were both on board with it. It's a glorified work-for-hire in a way, which is not dissimilar to how most of the entertainment industry functions.

The "holding value" part is important even for corpos on the verge of closure, because there are likely still outstanding costs, and it's not like they can pay those off with the revenue share or sponsorships if the talents are no longer streaming. It's the vtuber corpo equivalent of a sole trader selling his car to pay off a loan when his business goes south, you need to find cash somewhere, and selling your assets is the easiest way to do it.

But the problem is, the loudest voices in this discussion are teenagers who have never had a job, let alone owned a business. Their idea of right and wrong is decided entirely by how things make them feel, rather than whether they work in practice - and if somebody gets upset at any point it's obviously the big bad CEO abusing everyone (even if the guy's severely ill and one of the talents affected isn't too bothered by the IP cost since she understands the CEO invested a lot of his own money into funding it). Indies can jump into the discourse to push their anti-corpo rhetoric because appealing to emotion is much easier to package into retweet-bait for clout than nuanced breakdowns of a company's financials and why things are the way they are, and then those same people will act sad all over again the next time another one of these Twitter-friendly "we keep nothing and give you everything" nothing-corpos falls apart after six months.

Allow me to retort as if I was a "talent"
REEEEEE FUCK YOU!!! I MADE THE IP PROFITABLE IT SHOULD BE GIVEN TO ME FOR FREE IF YOU GO UNDER OR DIE!!!!
A huge part of it is entitlement. I can understand a feel of being owed since this industry is sort of a partnership but the fact they can't see the other side this many dead corpos is quite concerning.

Here have a funny tweet, no idea if it was posted and I'm too lazy to check

That's my nigga.

 

[Abomination]

A
Missed this one from when Pixel went down

Lol, this bitch was crying about how mean people are and shit, and then she goes in to talk all this shit. Just proves that she deserves all the shit she gets.

I understand people are drama whores, and that's all the reason they need, but it's kind of wild how this particular small corpo closing has brought all this anger from random fuckers. I haven't really seen any anger or vitriol coming from the actual talents this shit has affected, and yet all these unifiliated indies/small corpo people are just so pissy over this one. Unless they somehow know some horrible behind-the-scenes info we don't know, all these spergs are just bitching for the sake of being drama spergs.

But again, fuck the guy for having health problems and being unable to keep the company going, amirite?

This is the crux of it, a lot of people talking about IP ownership genuinely do not get it. When you're trying to run a sustainable corpo without putting yourself in a hole doing so, there will be times where you have to be the bad guy. That's the reality of the situation; making everyone feel good all the time does not generate revenue, at best it makes your corpo a stepping stone with no identity of its own that talents use to buy time while hoping they get into VShojo one day, at worst it bankrupts you while your name is dragged through the mud because the people you were trying to please all had different expectations.

A good business arrangement is one that is mutually beneficial, which corporate vtubing is. The talent has their upfront costs (model and rigging etc.) paid for, and is marketed to an audience that likely wouldn't find them otherwise. The corporation builds up a portfolio of intellectual property which holds value, and opens more opportunities for them and the talents signed under them as a whole. This is agreed upon, and if both parties willingly signed the contract, it can be assumed they were both on board with it. It's a glorified work-for-hire in a way, which is not dissimilar to how most of the entertainment industry functions.

The "holding value" part is important even for corpos on the verge of closure, because there are likely still outstanding costs, and it's not like they can pay those off with the revenue share or sponsorships if the talents are no longer streaming. It's the vtuber corpo equivalent of a sole trader selling his car to pay off a loan when his business goes south, you need to find cash somewhere, and selling your assets is the easiest way to do it.

But the problem is, the loudest voices in this discussion are teenagers who have never had a job, let alone owned a business. Their idea of right and wrong is decided entirely by how things make them feel, rather than whether they work in practice - and if somebody gets upset at any point it's obviously the big bad CEO abusing everyone (even if the guy's severely ill and one of the talents affected isn't too bothered by the IP cost since she understands the CEO invested a lot of his own money into funding it). Indies can jump into the discourse to push their anti-corpo rhetoric because appealing to emotion is much easier to package into retweet-bait for clout than nuanced breakdowns of a company's financials and why things are the way they are, and then those same people will act sad all over again the next time another one of these Twitter-friendly "we keep nothing and give you everything" nothing-corpos falls apart after six months.

Too long, didn't read boomer. I fully expect if the company I work for goes under, they need to automatically give me the heavy equipment I operate to do my current job for them. That's how the real world should work.

 

[BioBreak]

3D Junar

View attachment 91241
I think they got bigger...



View attachment 91242
WHOA MAMA

God-tier 3D model, but OMFG what the fuck were you thinking with that tail?

 

[John Vtuber👁️]

God-tier 3D model, but OMFG what the fuck were you thinking with that tail?

what do you mean, the tail isn't nearly big enough

FAT TAIL SUPREMACY