"What is three times nine? In a german sense it's 'I really don't wanna deal with your shit' because three times nine is 'NEIN NEIN NEIN' in german"Takanashi Kiara

The Termination of Zaion LanZa

Charlemagne

The Eternal Lurker
Joined:  Sep 16, 2022

Kyo is the most brain dead, tone-deaf person I've ever seen. What in the fuck would make you think it's a good idea to do this in someone else's birthday stream, it makes you look like a selfish asshole and is bad PR in general. I can't wait to see the rrats that come from this, especially if Kyo announces he's "taking a break" later today. At the minimum this shit isn't going away anytime soon if wigger-boy here keeps acting like a passive-aggressive bitch and keeps trying to ""subtlety"" bring Sayu up because he's mad she wasn't cancelled.
 

Scoots

The Pontiff of PonWolf
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 10, 2022
Kyo is the most brain dead, tone-deaf person I've ever seen. What in the fuck would make you think it's a good idea to do this in someone else's birthday stream, it make you look like a selfish asshole and is bad PR in general. I can't wait to see the rrats that come from this, especially if Kyo announces he's "taking a break" later today. At the minimum this shit isn't going away anytime soon if wigger-boy here keeps acting like a passive-aggressive bitch and keeps trying to ""subtlety"" bring Sayu up because he's mad she wasn't cancelled.
To be fair Hex upped it by mentioning Google docs and lawyers so clearly he did not care

also this is notable
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Jean Valjean

Brimming with salt
Joined:  Feb 22, 2023
And to think I actually used to like this shiroi-yamanba's content. All this shit has turned me from a unityfriend into a total holobronie.
 

Superduper Samurai

Well-known member
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 10, 2022
Oh to be a fly on the wall in their group discords, the seethe must be delicious

Also its funny that they make fun of google docs too, when Hex had one floating about and literally everyone in Luxeim (i think besides Luca?) had a faggy untrue one floating about

Thats gonna be a great soundbite to use for Hex, out of everyone in Niji he is the one i have a geniune bet on actually being a nonce, solely because of his tween fanbase and selfie tag
 
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Aquatic Novellite

Merry Shiorin
Early Adopter
Joined:  Oct 10, 2022

Scuddle

Well-known member
Pope of にじさんじ
Joined:  Oct 28, 2022
Though I also think there should be some sort of deal or system to receive financial assistance from ninji in producing such videos since it's in ninji's best interest to do so and even if they have a income from a PL they might not be able to afford a good first impression
I don't know if any company except for Idol EN have ever established that their talents receive a monetary care package upon debut. Back when I was always watching Towa, she said all her stuff came out of her own pocket too including music videos.

So while it would certainly be IDEAL for new members to receive some spending money once they join, if it isn't the norm then I would prefer to err on the side of caution that we shouldn't expect Niji to do something other JP corpos don't just because one person has come forward about how they felt about it.

This is even assuming that budget can be positively correlated with perception, which I'm not sure is something that can be measured. If you asked any NijiEN fans that have been there since the start what debut intros they found most memorable I feel like most people would say Pomu's low budget shitpost has stood the test of time the best. Noctyx and most of ILuna had high budget intros and I don't remember shit about any of them. XSoleil only debuted 6 months ago and my recollection of their lore videos - including Zaion's - is pretty poor. People fondly remember Ame's debut and it was just her fucking around with some visuals for an hour.

I'm not trying to be pedantic about how you or a debuting corpo V-Tuber would qualify a 'good impression' but what I am saying is that I don't even think their lore videos are the most important part of their debut streams. I don't remember shit about Selen's intro but she's EN's #1 girl in subs, so Zaion could have operated within her financial means and still trusted that her personality would more than make up for it, and the fact she chose to go big and cripple her funds was ultimately her own.



From this perspective, they've already lost, because they're virtually unable to stop the rrats. We are coming; our name is legion, for we are many.
Reputation is a big deal to any corporation and I certainly won't pretend that it isn't.

What I will say is that I don't think it's effects extend to the hiring of talents. Would you like to know how many people debuted at WACTOR since the first public dox of Shino Laila? 16 — 18 if you include two people who left the company before they even debuted last month.

Granted, I don't know how good these people are, but if you're a struggling 2-view on Twitch who WANTS to make it their full-time career and Nijisanji come knocking, I would wager 99/100 of them would accept regardless of this situation. If the person terminated was someone like Pomu, or Millie, or Selen, someone with a strong rapport with the community, then this would be a different conversation, but my gut instinct tells me that because it was someone who admitted to fucking up and lying on her end, the majority of talented Indies will probably be willing to overlook Japanese corporate autism if it meant they get a stable career out of being a V-Tuber.

Kyo is a bigger threat to future talent than this document is.
 

Continuous Retardation

Ame Gosling
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 15, 2022
Went to check who Sayu is subbed to (possible she hasn't cleaned them up yet but it's notable she is still subbed to Hex, Ver, Meloco, and Doppio but no Kotoka unless I missed her.
she was also subbed to several JP talents that I could not type out be they from stars JP or niji JP.
No screencaps cause I didn't think to take any until I was way down the list
sorted by affiliation
XSOLEIL
Hex
Ver
Meloco
Doppio

ETHYRIA
Millie Parfait
Reimu Endou
Enna Alouete
Nina Kosaka

ILUNA
Scarle and pl Ami Yoshiko
Aia Amare
Maria

LUXIEM
Ike Eveland
Luca Kaneshiro
Shu Yamino
Vox Akuma

LAZULIGHT
Elira
Pomu

OBSYDIA
Petra

Noctyx
Alban Knox
Yugo and Unnamed

NIJI ID
Mika
Hana Machia

TEMPUS
Machina X Flayon
Magni Dezmond
Gavis Bettel
Josuiji Shinri
Regis Altare

VSHOJO
Projekt Melody
Kson
Ironmouse

HOLOLIVE
Hoshimachi Suisei
Hakui Koyori
Nakiri Ayame
La+
Calli
Risu
Moona
Shion
Iroha
Fubuki
Bae
Kobo
Gura
Okayu

E-SEKAI
Yuko
Rin

PHASE CONNECT
Pippa Pipkin

INDIE
Merryweathery
Amalee monarch
CyYu
Emirichu
Yuzu
Lord Aethel
Connor
Trickwi
Bao
Girl dm
Uto
Lisa (former tsunderia)
Lilypichu
Silvervale
Kana (I believe that's guras old model sister)
Filian

DRAMA/NEWS
Depressed Nousagi
Falseeyed
Parrot4chan
Let's take a look and see who she likes-
No Amelia sub

Fuck her all hail the NIJIGODS! They made the right decision after all!
 

Scoots

The Pontiff of PonWolf
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 10, 2022

the red road

Well-known member
Joined:  Nov 28, 2022
The Nijisanji's fanbase reaction to Zaion making a joke about rape is kind of weird because didn't Vox literally do an ASMR where he pretended to rape "you" or something like that
 

Punished Anime Discusser

Well-known member
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 12, 2022
The Nijisanji's fanbase reaction to Zaion making a joke about rape is kind of weird because didn't Vox literally do an ASMR where he pretended to rape "you" or something like that
Shut the fuck up, stop asking questions. Nijisanji is a family.
 

Crush

opsec doko
(He's Nolan Crush)
Joined:  Sep 10, 2022

nooternun

(๑ 'ᆺ' ) Pfp is me IRL
Joined:  Mar 15, 2023
This was my question as far as I know Hana is the only double dipper and she is ID so likely has a dif contract

I imagine Ren's blue sugar high was it specified that it was a cover? That said I don't think Ren is at all to blame for the bonk it's likely management just saw it as taking potential views and Ren (or whoever it was had no say in the matter)
Ahhh, makes sense that is a good cover. Ren and Dop had the only good responses to her leaving.
Sure, but this thread isn't about starting labor unions for vtubers and bringing about socialised streaming, it's about Nijisanji's actions in the context of Zaion's termination with a helping of Nijisanji black company, XY company good in comparison.

And that helping in particular relies on current industry standards, not on how these standards can be improved.

And to be frank, huge, expensive debuts are a luxury, not a requirement. I'm admittedly not particularly torn up upon learning that a streamer has to pay out of pocket for a huge, expensive debut. Nice when one gets one done, certainly. But not something I'd see reason to pay money for myself if I'm short on it. Not when a debut can also be done at literally zero cost.
All Niji's should be aiming for Salami success. Debut is when you have the most eyes on you, it makes sense to try and get people to stick around.
Good taste
 

Egg the Boiled

Yeah.
Joined:  Nov 2, 2022
Fuck imagine the discord chat they had after the doc got released. The seeth must have been palpable.
I was really hoping for some sort of Discord leak. It'd be so unlikely but it'd be so so funny.

Kyo is the most brain dead, tone-deaf person I've ever seen. What in the fuck would make you think it's a good idea to do this in someone else's birthday stream, it makes you look like a selfish asshole and is bad PR in general. I can't wait to see the rrats that come from this, especially if Kyo announces he's "taking a break" later today. At the minimum this shit isn't going away anytime soon if wigger-boy here keeps acting like a passive-aggressive bitch and keeps trying to ""subtlety"" bring Sayu up because he's mad she wasn't cancelled.
Even if it was a generic joke about Twitlongers- which I thought was more likely until Hex brought up that google doc... they have to know what happened and how it looks. Why would you ever think that's a good idea?
 

Scoots

The Pontiff of PonWolf
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 10, 2022
I imagine Ren's blue sugar high was it specified that it was a cover? That said I don't think Ren is at all to blame for the bonk it's likely management just saw it as taking potential views and Ren (or whoever it was had no say in the matter)

Edit: it was a cover I forget which one had a cover at the beginning Maria maybe

Edit 2: it is only now I realize that I have mistaken Ren and Maria for Xsolel when they are Iluna
Did Meloco have a debut cover?
I just went and saw who has a cover near debut and it's only one and the one Sayu unsubbed now I'm wondering if Kotoka DID bitch about it
Edit: she didn't Sayu said it was just typical Japanese lack of fair use
 
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Paladin

Resident Sad Girl Enjoyer
Joined:  Jan 5, 2023
Oh, by chance, can someone pin the Sayu stream to the events bar as regardless of the information revealed, it's gonna bring a new wave of traction.
 

Nabeshin

Well-known member
Joined:  Sep 19, 2022
@SZ 109 sorry for the tagging, I was thinking of something, on some countries if an employee pays for something on the company, he has ownership or partial ownership of it, can this apply to Zaion model as she payed for all pre-debut things?
 

nooternun

(๑ 'ᆺ' ) Pfp is me IRL
Joined:  Mar 15, 2023

Any Name You Wish

Well-known member
Joined:  Sep 28, 2022
Granted, I don't know how good these people are, but if you're a struggling 2-view on Twitch who WANTS to make it their full-time career and Nijisanji come knocking, I would wager 99/100 of them would accept regardless of this situation. If the person terminated was someone like Pomu, or Millie, or Selen, someone with a strong rapport with the community, then this would be a different conversation, but my gut instinct tells me that because it was someone who admitted to fucking up and lying on her end, the majority of talented Indies will probably be willing to overlook Japanese corporate autism if it meant they get a stable career out of being a V-Tuber.

Kyo is a bigger threat to future talent than this document is.

Even as a Nijisanji fan myself, I'd kinda struggle to call working for Nijisanji a stable source of income, personally. Though maybe that's just me being more business minded.

I'll stick the bulk of this under a spoiler so those who don't care about this kind of thing don't have to see it clogging things up.

The vast majority of indie vtubers are on Twitch, not Youtube, and while Twitch has a 20% higher revenue split (50/50 compared to 70/30) it also has a much higher average number of viewers compared to Youtube; thus, a much higher potential audience. In the past month, unless I've missed something in the data, only eight members of NijiEN broke the top 100 viewed Vtubers across both platforms. Which is still an impressive number... Until you start to notice one big discrepancy.

These are the top five most viewed of NijiEN, with the number noted being their peak concurrent viewers.
image.png

This is a case of "Well, we already knew that" considering who it is, sure. However, the next highest viewed NijiEN member...
image.png

Is Selen, arguably the biggest female NijiEN streamer.. Who had less than 1/3rd of the viewers. The next highest two are Kotoka and Fulger.
i-rFSh6sSEyRfrSC1Mxe9w.png

image.png

Please pay close attention to the pointed out figure, because it's important to note; The peak viewership of Twenty-Two out of Thirty of NijiEN's members is below 11k, which means that the average peak viewership is likely MUCH lower.

Now, keep in mind... This was measuring peak viewer count, not average viewer count. In reality, the average viewer count would likely be a fraction of that number. So a fraction of a fraction of 11k. For the sake of simplicity, we'll treat these fractions as cutting in half each time. So we'd have an average viewer count of 2,750 for the average Nijisanji EN member.

So by the metric of sheer viewer numbers, you're almost surely going to go up. However, viewer numbers is not directly proportional to income. This is due to multiple factors, including;
  • You're actually likely getting LESS than a 50% cut off of Youtube no matter how you negotiate your split due to the addition of Nijisanji's split. The seeming accepted figure is 30%, which depending on how the contract is structured is either 30% off the top (making the revenue 40$ for every 100$ made at essentially a 40/60 cut) or 30% off the 70% in revenue you made after Youtube takes its cut (making the revenue 49$ out of every 100$ made, as 30% of 70$ is 21$).
  • Twitch's system for gifting subs takes into account ALL followers rather than just all people in chat, so you're actually more likely to make a higher passive income off of subs on Twitch compared to membership on Youtube by sheer virtue of the fact that you're more likely to make passive income off of non-viewers who follow but don't watch. Which is compounded by the fact that...
  • In my experience, both in practice and through all observations, a MUCH higher proportion of viewers will donate or sub to an Indie compared to a Corpo Vtuber. Generally speaking, a 2-3 view chuba will have a community with a higher percentage of dedicated viewers willing to open their wallets compared to the percent of viewers that a 4+ view chuba will have, and in many cases more willing to spend more in comparison. You can account this to the simplicity of donating/subbing on Twitch compared to Youtube, the idea of supporting a smaller viewer giving people their own little moral asspat, or even the concept of Twitch Prime allowing people to essentially give their favorite chuba 5$ without even SPENDING the 5$, but it doesn't change the numbers.
This not even getting into the fact that making money as a streamer is completely dependent on, you know... streaming. So a two week suspension over potentially arbitrary reasons from a corporation means two full weeks with absolutely no income. Especially in a company like Nijisanji which does a dramatic degree less of merchandise on a dramatically smaller scale, meaning you aren't even making enough off merch to properly off-set this two weeks.

Just speaking generally... Being an Indie Vtuber is actually a LOT more stable than being a Nijisanji streamer overall. Its just that as a Nijisanji streamer you have a CHANCE to potentially make more.

We definitely agree that Kyo is the biggest threat to future Nijisanji talent as a whole though. I constantly wanna give this dumbass the benefit of the doubt, and then he pulls this kind of stunt.
 

Scoots

The Pontiff of PonWolf
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 10, 2022

Sankisei

HOLOLIVE SAIKYO
Joined:  Feb 23, 2023
its so sad that even Nijisanji fans dont like Kyo
Edit:Typo
 
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