"I do play games. I promise I play games. Just not this type of game... I'm a rhythm gamer ok? Is that the truth- Is that the truth you want? I'm a rhythm gamer, I can only hit 2 buttons... I can only hit 2 to 4 buttons simultaneously painshork noises that's the truth gets attacked ah get outta here barracuda... I'm having a moment."Gawr Gura

Nijisanji L Collection

Thomas Talus

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Holy shit, they will be defeinitely booted out of JP court with this. I don't know about JP procedures, but here such number of clear violations, including penal code, will make contract void in it's entirety. They won't even be able to request their iphones back, also lose copyright for all stuff produced by talent.
You are exaggerating. The potentially illegal parts as described in the annotations are the penalty stuff (which I called out originally), and possibly the requirements of PII and the termination without notice. The contract would not be voided entirely due to the severability clause. Even the wonky amendment notice rules are likely legal, if scummy.
 

Xuhle

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Joined:  Nov 9, 2023
You are exaggerating. The potentially illegal parts as described in the annotations are the penalty stuff (which I called out originally), and possibly the requirements of PII and the termination without notice. The contract would not be voided entirely due to the severability clause. Even the wonky amendment notice rules are likely legal, if scummy.
The entire thing being illegal no, key parts certainly. Penalties being illegal in general would already be a start to that and should be in the rules of conduct normal. The termination with no cause of course is illegal to no surprise. There is certainly thing that are questionable that might be illegal like the amendment clause cuase like they point out article 24 might contradict all of article 23, you would need to take it to a judge to find out.

Then you get to the Silencing contract which is by far no surprise the first thing its illegal as it screams yakuza or mafia style gaging to the lay person. Same with the compensation for damages basically being blackmail then.
 

MerelyTourist

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Joined:  Feb 5, 2024
You are exaggerating. The potentially illegal parts as described in the annotations are the penalty stuff (which I called out originally), and possibly the requirements of PII and the termination without notice. The contract would not be voided entirely due to the severability clause. Even the wonky amendment notice rules are likely legal, if scummy.
Yep, but amount of voided clauses won't leave anything that niji could collect on, at which point whole contract might be void as well. It's cascading, voiding one clause for illegality makes other clauses unenforceable, thus void too, and so on. In the end we left with definitions, obligatory anti-yakuza and public moral blobs, and little else.
 

Xuhle

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Joined:  Nov 9, 2023
Yep, but amount of voided clauses won't leave anything that niji could collect on, at which point whole contract might be void as well. It's cascading, voiding one clause for illegality makes other clauses unenforceable, thus void too, and so on. In the end we left with definitions, obligatory anti-yakuza and public moral blobs, and little else.
Yes the entire 1 voided clause of penalties.
 

Thomas Talus

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Yep, but amount of voided clauses won't leave anything that niji could collect on, at which point whole contract might be void as well. It's cascading, voiding one clause for illegality makes other clauses unenforceable, thus void too, and so on. In the end we left with definitions, obligatory anti-yakuza and public moral blobs, and little else.
Voiding the penalty clause, info requirements, and such, do not fundamentally void the contract. As long as you have an offer, acceptance, and consideration, there is a contract, unless there's some sort of bar to validity like lack of capacity or a contract whose subject matter is illegal (contract for a hit, slave trafficking, etc.).
 

MerelyTourist

jkterjter jkterjtier
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Joined:  Feb 5, 2024
Voiding the penalty clause, info requirements, and such, do not fundamentally void the contract. As long as you have an offer, acceptance, and consideration, there is a contract, unless there's some sort of bar to validity like lack of capacity or a contract whose subject matter is illegal (contract for a hit, slave trafficking, etc.).
But there is no consideration, as they do not offer any guaranteed payments in exclusive employee contract
 

NeneHATE

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Voiding the penalty clause, info requirements, and such, do not fundamentally void the contract. As long as you have an offer, acceptance, and consideration, there is a contract, unless there's some sort of bar to validity like lack of capacity or a contract whose subject matter is illegal (contract for a hit, slave trafficking, etc.).
Are you a lawyer mayhaps? What wonderful and succinct breakdown of contract requirements.
 

Superduper Samurai

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(contract for a hit, slave trafficking, etc.).
Watchout, they will argue that the two suicide attempts count as a hit and the working conditions count as slave labor next
 

Xuhle

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Joined:  Nov 9, 2023
But there is no consideration, as they do not offer any guaranteed payments in exclusive employee contract
Initially I had this listed as legal, however upon further analysis this is questionable. It would need to determined by a judge if the 50% cut and Exclusive Fee is specific enough.

What could make this invalid is a lack of specificity of Royalties, Performance Fees, & Merchandising cuts in this agreement.

So take it up with a judge that is not void.
 

famous artist pipkun

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Are you a lawyer mayhaps? What wonderful and succinct breakdown of contract requirements.
the solicitor mating ritual begins. nene and thom will send each other contracts to be signed with perfumed ink, sealed with their waxed initials. but first, the negotiations.
 

MerelyTourist

jkterjter jkterjtier
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Joined:  Feb 5, 2024
Initially I had this listed as legal, however upon further analysis this is questionable. It would need to determined by a judge if the 50% cut and Exclusive Fee is specific enough.
What could make this invalid is a lack of specificity of Royalties, Performance Fees, & Merchandising cuts in this agreement.
So take it up with a judge that is not void.
50% of what? They claim exclusivity and total control (so full-time employment), but they don't set any base monthly wage. Additional merch/ad contracts also won't set base wage. Unless there is minimal wage amendment and they can provide reciepts on satisfactory payments from the first month, niji is fucked. Though if they met minimal wage for all months, judge might let it slide, depending on other circumstances. But i doubt this, because they pay up only after recieving money from youtube, so about a month of delay.
 
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Thomas Talus

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But there is no consideration, as they do not offer any guaranteed payments in exclusive employee contract
Nor do contracts for a commission-based sales position, but somehow those hold up in court.

They let the streamer use their IP and company name, for one thing, which is the core of what the streamer is looking for. That's not illusory, and it's worth a lot more than a peppercorn.
 

MerelyTourist

jkterjter jkterjtier
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Joined:  Feb 5, 2024
Nor do contracts for a commission-based sales position, but somehow those hold up in court.
They let the streamer use their IP and company name, for one thing, which is the core of what the streamer is looking for. That's not illusory, and it's worth a lot more than a peppercorn.
For full employee in JP?
But yeah. it'll be jurisdiction-by-jurisdiction and laregely up to judge's consideration if laws are not explicit enough. Some mandate mininmal wage, some don't. Judge might let it slide, fine the company, void the contract, or any combination of these.
Value of IP and company name is highly questionable and hardly can be determined, i don't think such arguments are relevant here.
 
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Thomas Talus

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Value of IP and company name is highly questionable and hardly can be determined, i don't think such arguments are relevant here.
I don't think you have a very good grasp of how the value of branding works in the attention economy.

Regardless, as long as there is consideration, which can include promises to do things which you are not obligated to do rather than specific goods or services, the value of the consideration is of minimal relevance to the validity of the contract.
 

RestlessRain

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I don't think you have a very good grasp of how the value of branding works in the attention economy.
On the contrary, branding can be very valuable. How many people subbed to the last batch of talents at Hololive without knowing anything about them besides the fact they were upcoming Hololive talents, for example?
 

Thomas Talus

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On the contrary, branding can be very valuable. How many people subbed to the last batch of talents at Hololive without knowing anything about them besides the fact they were upcoming Hololive talents, for example?
Unless I very much misunderstood something, the tourist was saying that the branding wasn't a thing of value that could be counted as consideration. I was saying that was incorrect, as the branding is extremely valuable, although the value is not as relevant to the validity of the contract either way as long as it does exist.
 

lolwatagain

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Joined:  Jun 1, 2023
Nor do contracts for a commission-based sales position, but somehow those hold up in court.

They let the streamer use their IP and company name, for one thing, which is the core of what the streamer is looking for. That's not illusory, and it's worth a lot more than a peppercorn.
Actually, I wonder how much of this shit they could get away with if the contract was drafted as a licensing agreement to use Nijisanji IP instead of as a contract for an Independent Contractor.

Edit: Even the damages clauses might survive if they were written as a liquidated damages clause for damage to the Nijisanji IP for violations.
 
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Xuhle

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Actually, I wonder how much of this shit they could get away with if the contract was drafted as a licensing agreement to use Nijisanji IP instead of as a contract for an Independent Contractor.

Edit: Even the damages clauses might survive if they were written as a liquidated damages clause for damage to the Nijisanji IP for violations.
Honestly i wouldnt be surprised that what the legal document was when they first started, then when they started getting bigger and needed to make offical contracts they just copied what they had, changed a few things and thought it would work. We know just how lazy niji is would that be so far of a stretch?
 

Thomas Talus

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Edit: Even the damages clauses might survive if they were written as a liquidated damages clause for damage to the Nijisanji IP for violations.
Liquidated damages clauses can work (in jurisdictions I'm familiar with), but it would be strange for the estimated damages to an IP to be directly proportional to the streamer's monthly generated revenue.
 

lolwatagain

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Joined:  Jun 1, 2023
Liquidated damages clauses can work (in jurisdictions I'm familiar with), but it would be strange for the estimated damages to an IP to be directly proportional to the streamer's monthly generated revenue.
You'd have to estimate the damages based on how the damage to the IP would reduce the royalties that Nijisanji would have obtained if not for the damage. Royalties which just so happen to equal 50% of the streamer's superchats.
 
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