As long as I can remember vtubers were never actual idols in the traditional sense and it was always memed and joked about. I don't understand how the vtuber "fan base" has gaslighted themselves into believing that this is not the case. Im i crazy, im i crazy? hell this allice and wonder land spiral starts with me watching Matsuri clips, i guess that's why i can't see them as anything more than entertainers, or is it that im over 20 and understand that content creators 99% arent going to be your friend or be in a relationship with you. so i don't have the crazy standards for them, idk maybe it is because im not really a streamer cultured viewer, and i just see streams as more long-form videos rather than an interactive experience. (im i crazy. blah blah where do you think you are tva.)