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Vidya Games Thread

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Mandalore reviews Singularity, Raven Software's last title before being banished to the COD mines

Raven's history is a great showing of the trajectory of gaming itself, and depressing as all hell.

90's: all original titles.
00's: mostly licenses or sequels to other studios' games.
10's and beyond: Call of Duty after Call of Duty.

I want the gaming industry to crash so god damn hard.
 
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CalciumAnimal

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Bug Eater

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Raven's history is a great showing of the trajectory of gaming itself, and depressing as all hell.

90's: all original titles.
00's: mostly licenses or sequels to other studios' games.
10's and beyond: Call of Duty after Call of Duty.

I want the gaming industry to crash so god damn hard.
To be fair I think that the commercial failure of Wolfenstein (2009, not the good reboot) didn't help but it's still pretty lame. I guess they were kind of cursed during the 00s because as decent as Jedi Academy was, it could never hold a candle to KOTOR 1/2. At least we got Amid Evil as a taste of what a modern Heretic/Hexen could be like.
I'm sure they're making bank with CoD now :mikothumbsl:
 

UberSoldat

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Joined:  Oct 19, 2022
At least we got Amid Evil as a taste of what a modern Heretic/Hexen could be like.
And even then I'd say Amid Evil goes for a completely different style and tone. The only successor I can think of is Hands of Necromancy, other than that there just isn't a game like the Serpent Riders saga.
 

Punished Anime Discusser

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I'm sure they're making bank with CoD now :mikothumbsl:
Until Activision forces them to slop a game together in 9 months because InfinityWard couldn't do their job, and then Raven gets dissolved and consumed into the greater Activision blob, and half the devs fired.
 

CalciumAnimal

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Until Activision forces them to slop a game together in 9 months because InfinityWard couldn't do their job, and then Raven gets dissolved and consumed into the greater Activision blob, and half the devs fired.
implying that's not already happened functionally dead is still dead.
 

Zapan1984

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Joined:  Sep 11, 2022
Vampire Survivors gets a Collab DLC with Castlevania. Im hype for that.
 

shipmate_F

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how would that fix anything.
Current meta is unsustainable.

Hollywoodian AAA Slop
Good huge projects (scarce)
Mihoyo Gacha
Other Gacha
(a gap bigger than your mom's vagina)
Smaller studios/A games
Indie games

Because of how homogeneous and brand-friendly most of that upper bracket need to be, you have boring designs coupled with multimillion photorrealistic projects that culminate into nothing - you don't need 4K textures for clothing, you need better code. Because of that, resources are mostly diverted into graphical fidelity and marketing, and that ramps up the cost of making games, it is so fucking high if your project leave the scope of a, let's say, Hades or Bomb Rush Cyberfunk. and even they are huge gambles compared to the vast majority of other good projects that survived by word-of-mouth.

With a crash, most grifters/"investor angels" would lose a fuckton money and stop pushing for that kind of thing. It would suck for a lot of devs employed by the huge publishers, but going back to a more focused, niche community would do wonders for gaming and reduce to a more healthy environment and most importantly, make studios tune it down to make low-cost good games rather than betting it all in 5+ year cycle projects in the hundred millions scope to give us the most generic experience possible because they need to appeal to the normies to sell those 10 million units projected.
Everytime a cycle is done, layoffs happens in the thousands, this is just unsustainable.

To show you an example:

Amazing fucking game that Ubisoft decided to kill on release:

EGS/Uplay exclusivity for a long time
Zero marketing
Delusional sales projection
Should be 30 bucks not 40

This game only got traction because of word-of-mouth, but in the current state of the industry it couldn't survive with just that. Ubi managers decided to let this piece of joy die because their name was already muddy and they did nothing to change that, even with a great fucking game in their sea of slop.
 
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God's Strongest Dragoon

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Joined:  Mar 20, 2023
Current meta is unsustainable.

Hollywoodian AAA Slop
Good huge projects (scarce)
Mihoyo Gacha
Other Gacha
(a gap bigger than your mom's vagina)
Smaller studios/A games
Indie games

Because of how homogeneous and brand-friendly most of that upper bracket need to be, you have boring designs coupled with multimillion photorrealistic projects that culminate into nothing - you don't need 4K textures for clothing, you need better code. Because of that, resources are mostly diverted into graphical fidelity and marketing, and that ramps up the cost of making games, it is so fucking high if your project leave the scope of a, let's say, Hades or Bomb Rush Cyberfunk. and even they are huge gambles compared to the vast majority of other good projects that survived by word-of-mouth.

With a crash, most grifters/"investor angels" would lose a fuckton money and stop pushing for that kind of thing. It would suck for a lot of devs employed by the huge publishers, but going back to a more focused, niche community would do wonders for gaming and reduce to a more healthy environment and most importantly, make studios tune it down to make low-cost good games rather than betting it all in 5+ year cycle projects in the hundred millions scope to give us the most generic experience possible because they need to appeal to the normies to sell those 10 million units projected.
Everytime a cycle is done, layoffs happens in the thousands, this is just unsustainable.

To show you an example:

Amazing fucking game that Ubisoft decided to kill on release:

EGS/Uplay exclusivity for a long time
Zero marketing
Delusional sales projection
Should be 30 bucks not 40

This game only got traction because of word-of-mouth, but in the current state of the industry it couldn't survive with just that. Ubi managers decided to let this piece of joy die because their name was already muddy and they did nothing to change that, even with a great fucking game in their sea of slop.
Yeah, the whole central point is to kill overbudgeted games. While it is nice to see some of these AAA games pumped out with extreme details in every aspect like RDR2, they're the minority in that part of the industry. More often than not, the budget is spent on unnecessary 4k textures and endless committees to ensure the game appeals to everyone it can. A game trying to market to everyone is often a game that appeals to no one and is likely going to be a less creative or unique game. It's a sick cycle of studios banking 7+ years of their life on a game that buys the studio more time or causes their studio to implode. And that's assuming the publisher doesn't layoff the staff anyways because the game only did $200 million in profit, not $500 million because they were expecting it to do GTA5 release numbers.

The worst part about these budgets is that it has caused dev cycles to balloon out to that 7+ year dev time, which is inherently worse for the industry. Instead of taking 2-3 years on a game and having the experience of multiple games under their belt, the current devs are mainly experienced with just that 1 game and maybe their experience on that project was hyperfocused on just 1 area, so their overall experience is absolutely dogshit compared to past devs that has been working on multiple projects over those years. In some cases in the past, those devs may have been sent over to help work on a sister studio's project while their personal involvement on their studio's project is pretty much complete.

In the past, you'd see a game studio release like 2 good games and you'd feel you could trust them to deliver on their next games. Nowadays you'll see a studio develop 1 good game and then the next game is dogshit because the people that worked on the last game aren't there anymore and that studio is just a skeleton crew ran by retards working for cheap. It isn't the same studio, the brand name of a studio means nothing anymore. There's countless stories in the past decade of "wow, this game sucks, I thought this studio was good!" and then you find out that like 70% of the people that mattered at the studio left to form their own studio.

The industry was already starting to get out of control as the success of Halo 3 and Modern Warfare 2, which made a lot of market investors realize gaming is an untapped gold mine. Then GTA5 buck broke the entire gaming industry when it popped off and sold a gajillion dollars, resulting in every AAA trying to replicate that. Every investor wants the company they're invested in to pump out THE GAME that sells a gajillion copies and then continues to print easy money for a decade straight. The overall change has resulted in more inexperienced devs, less consumer confidence, and an incredibly unstable industry that has less interest in creative endeavors.
 

CalciumAnimal

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your both entirely focusing on the "positives" maybe your both too young to remember what the first crash was like and the conditions that lead up to it.

Even if we somehow managed to reach a similar point in current year (fat chance) the first thing to fold would be indie studios triple A studios might take a hit but would ride it out with a bit of scaled back operations even if the market just vanished that would simply mean starting a new one with even less competition.

Meanwhile all your favorite indie studios shrivel up and die are forced to either apply to make ubuyslop or quit development all together all projects go into the wastes while 3ish years pass till a new batch of start up's try their hand at things (and get crushed out by triple a studios paying attention this time)
 

God's Strongest Dragoon

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Joined:  Mar 20, 2023
your both entirely focusing on the "positives" maybe your both too young to remember what the first crash was like and the conditions that lead up to it.

Even if we somehow managed to reach a similar point in current year (fat chance) the first thing to fold would be indie studios triple A studios might take a hit but would ride it out with a bit of scaled back operations even if the market just vanished that would simply mean starting a new one with even less competition.

Meanwhile all your favorite indie studios shrivel up and die are forced to either apply to make ubuyslop or quit development all together all projects go into the wastes while 3ish years pass till a new batch of start up's try their hand at things (and get crushed out by triple a studios paying attention this time)
That's not what we're talking for. We're not talking about an exact repeat of the last crash where there was a 97% drop in revenue. We're talking about specifically AAAs getting assfucked as the industry realizes as a whole that their current model is unhealthy and unsustainable while AA and Indies gain more recognition because they're already fulfilling niche and unique games. We're already starting to see it happen as Ubisoft is crumbling under their own weight and several other AAA publishers are putting out flops. Meanwhile Enshrouded, Balatro, and fucking Buckshot Roulette were in the top 10 Steam 2024 sales from January to May.
 

CalciumAnimal

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Joined:  Feb 24, 2023
That's not what we're talking for. We're not talking about an exact repeat of the last crash where there was a 97% drop in revenue. We're talking about specifically AAAs getting assfucked as the industry realizes as a whole that their current model is unhealthy and unsustainable while AA and Indies gain more recognition because they're already fulfilling niche and unique games. We're already starting to see it happen as Ubisoft is crumbling under their own weight and several other AAA publishers are putting out flops. Meanwhile Enshrouded, Balatro, and fucking Buckshot Roulette were in the top 10 Steam 2024 sales from January to May.
then that's not a crash is it it's a please burn down any company that makes tripleA goyslop with maybe some asterisks for companies that maybe don't shit the bed.

which is more reasonable insofar arson is reasonable.
 

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Amazing fucking game that Ubisoft decided to kill on release:

EGS/Uplay exclusivity for a long time
Zero marketing
Delusional sales projection
Should be 30 bucks not 40

This game only got traction because of word-of-mouth, but in the current state of the industry it couldn't survive with just that. Ubi managers decided to let this piece of joy die because their name was already muddy and they did nothing to change that, even with a great fucking game in their sea of slop.

That game was actually good? I wrote it off because, a) it's Ubisoft, and b) they were obviously trying to Yamanba it up as much as possible.

If it has actual good gameplay and structure, then that's both hilarious and sad. Another reason for Ubisoft to eat shit (also because they're Ubisoft).

Yeah, the whole central point is to kill overbudgeted games. While it is nice to see some of these AAA games pumped out with extreme details in every aspect like RDR2, they're the minority in that part of the industry. More often than not, the budget is spent on unnecessary 4k textures and endless committees to ensure the game appeals to everyone it can. A game trying to market to everyone is often a game that appeals to no one and is likely going to be a less creative or unique game. It's a sick cycle of studios banking 7+ years of their life on a game that buys the studio more time or causes their studio to implode. And that's assuming the publisher doesn't layoff the staff anyways because the game only did $200 million in profit, not $500 million because they were expecting it to do GTA5 release numbers.

The worst part about these budgets is that it has caused dev cycles to balloon out to that 7+ year dev time, which is inherently worse for the industry. Instead of taking 2-3 years on a game and having the experience of multiple games under their belt, the current devs are mainly experienced with just that 1 game and maybe their experience on that project was hyperfocused on just 1 area, so their overall experience is absolutely dogshit compared to past devs that has been working on multiple projects over those years. In some cases in the past, those devs may have been sent over to help work on a sister studio's project while their personal involvement on their studio's project is pretty much complete.

In the past, you'd see a game studio release like 2 good games and you'd feel you could trust them to deliver on their next games. Nowadays you'll see a studio develop 1 good game and then the next game is dogshit because the people that worked on the last game aren't there anymore and that studio is just a skeleton crew ran by retards working for cheap. It isn't the same studio, the brand name of a studio means nothing anymore. There's countless stories in the past decade of "wow, this game sucks, I thought this studio was good!" and then you find out that like 70% of the people that mattered at the studio left to form their own studio.

The industry was already starting to get out of control as the success of Halo 3 and Modern Warfare 2, which made a lot of market investors realize gaming is an untapped gold mine. Then GTA5 buck broke the entire gaming industry when it popped off and sold a gajillion dollars, resulting in every AAA trying to replicate that. Every investor wants the company they're invested in to pump out THE GAME that sells a gajillion copies and then continues to print easy money for a decade straight. The overall change has resulted in more inexperienced devs, less consumer confidence, and an incredibly unstable industry that has less interest in creative endeavors.

A big question is if the gaming industry can even have a big crash, since, well, people keep spending money on these games. Could perhaps most of AAA gaming go under and that creates a total crash? I'm unsure. But I have trouble right now seeing the likes of Fortnite and Call of Duty no longer pulling in the dough - and GTA VI will likely also bring in a steady, large amount of money, and not for GTA VI, but for the next version of GTA Online.

Maybe we'd see only a very small handful of Games as a Service (Fortnite, GTAO), with a few seasonal games (Call of Duty, Madden) - that are also GaaS? That plus Gacha games. Maybe that's the near future of gaming. Still, that'd open up a much bigger return to a gaming scene of the past, even if not entirely.

Man, I loved how there basically was no such thing as AAA gaming in the 90s. The closest there was were Nintendo and Sega, and even that's a stretch to call them that. I know it's almost entirely due to technological limitations, and how it didn't matter how much resources and personnel you had, you're not making a Genesis or N64 game look or play all that much better than just having a handful of guys. Hell, the most important factor when drawing eyeballs (and thus money) in the 90s and 00s was visual fidelity, and in the 90s alone it was driven by id software (more specifically, just John Carmack); in the late 90s and early-to-mid 00s it was Carmack, Sweeney, and the guys who modified Carmack's work to make GoldSrc and Source (just realized I've never thought about who exactly at Valve were the main engine programmers). In the early 00s, AAA really started coming about, and publishers started throwing around money to get the best graphics. Creating all those assets requires a lot of people, which is a lot of money.

We're at an odd point, however, where graphics are no longer the main draw, but so is... nothing. For the AAA games, it's running almost entirely on name recognition, which helps explain in part all the remakes. Visuals just have to be reaching a certain threshold, and that itself isn't such a big deal these days, as a lot of these AAA games look worse than ones from a decade ago. These still require a ton of asset work, however...

...which is where AI could really shake things up. If one artist or programmer could do the work of a hundred, or even a thousand? Well damn, we could have the same visuals we see today with the team size being just a handful of guys. That is, unless AI skips asset generation and we go right to the full game generation, but that's another wonder/horror topic.

But to get to what I want to see - a wide but more tightly knit gaming scene/community - a shit ton of people will have to just want to not play video games any more. We got the Normies in the AAA scene feeding the beast to churn out watered down slop (and worse, so much of it is being dug up graves of fondly remembered titles), and then we got the Hipsters in the indie scene that are some how even more unbearable (oh, right, because they're hipsters). We'd need a small indie scene with a larger (but not too large) actual games industry that caters to a specific culture - the gamer nerd culture. I'll probably never see this again, but I can dream.
 

God's Strongest Dragoon

Well-known member
Joined:  Mar 20, 2023
But to get to what I want to see - a wide but more tightly knit gaming scene/community - a shit ton of people will have to just want to not play video games any more. We got the Normies in the AAA scene feeding the beast to churn out watered down slop (and worse, so much of it is being dug up graves of fondly remembered titles), and then we got the Hipsters in the indie scene that are some how even more unbearable (oh, right, because they're hipsters). We'd need a small indie scene with a larger (but not too large) actual games industry that caters to a specific culture - the gamer nerd culture. I'll probably never see this again, but I can dream.
Yeah, the AA and indie scene isn't innocent. I've had enough of the "hmm, should I make my indie game a metroidvania, a roguelike, or both?"
 

shipmate_F

menhera addicted sister
Pipproject Producer
Joined:  Jun 21, 2023
That game was actually good? I wrote it off because, a) it's Ubisoft, and b) they were obviously trying to Yamanba it up as much as possible.

If it has actual good gameplay and structure, then that's both hilarious and sad. Another reason for Ubisoft to eat shit (also because they're Ubisoft).
Yes, it's a great metroidvania mixing in part of Prince of Persia platforming and time shenanigans and honestly, if there's one place we should see browns it's in there, he is literally mesopotanian. I do agree however that giving him a killmonger was too much, he ain't black he's egyptian at most.
The puzzles are good, the combat is great, the movement just flows well, if you're dexterous enough you can slide cancel and move as fast as SOTN backdashcancelling, the game allows itself to break in a sea of constrained designs that hold your hand at every given second.
If I had to nitpick, the bosses feel too easy most of the time and some temples are too big, it's hard to get from NPC to NPC.
 

Xuhle

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Joined:  Nov 9, 2023
I do agree however that giving him a killmonger was too much, he ain't black he's egyptian at most.
Or you know how's about Persian as he's the Prince of Persia?
 

CalciumAnimal

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Joined:  Feb 24, 2023
Or you know how's about Persian as he's the Price of Persia?
shaking my head right now they can't even aim racism correctly this forums fallen so far.
 

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Yeah, the AA and indie scene isn't innocent. I've had enough of the "hmm, should I make my indie game a metroidvania, a roguelike, or both?"

Yes, it's a great metroidvania

Found that funny.

Yes, it's a great metroidvania mixing in part of Prince of Persia platforming and time shenanigans and honestly, if there's one place we should see browns it's in there, he is literally mesopotanian. I do agree however that giving him a killmonger was too much, he ain't black he's egyptian at most.
The puzzles are good, the combat is great, the movement just flows well, if you're dexterous enough you can slide cancel and move as fast as SOTN backdashcancelling, the game allows itself to break in a sea of constrained designs that hold your hand at every given second.
If I had to nitpick, the bosses feel too easy most of the time and some temples are too big, it's hard to get from NPC to NPC.

He looks like they wanted to make him black while actually realizing he can't be black. Looking at him, he would absolutely be a black character in a 90s or 00s game. So yeah, they Yamanbaed him up.

Parts of the game too easy? And too big? While this isn't unique to Modern Gaming, it sure is a staple now. If the rest actually feels like a tightly made game, however, then this sounds like an accident that was somehow made by Ubisoft (who had to fuck it up in someway).

Speaking of which, there's reportedly a new Rayman game being worked on, made up of members of that Prince of Persia team. They probably can't Yamanba that, but they sure can queer it.
 

CalciumAnimal

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Found that funny.



He looks like they wanted to make him black while actually realizing he can't be black. Looking at him, he would absolutely be a black character in a 90s or 00s game. So yeah, they Yamanbaed him up.

Parts of the game too easy? And too big? While this isn't unique to Modern Gaming, it sure is a staple now. If the rest actually feels like a tightly made game, however, then this sounds like an accident that was somehow made by Ubisoft (who had to fuck it up in someway).

Speaking of which, there's reportedly a new Rayman game being worked on, made up of members of that Prince of Persia team. They probably can't Yamanba that, but they sure can queer it.
i dunno making laserhawk gay as a pixie made blood dragon remix pretty fun.

Also let's be honest here no one can agree which Rayman sequel was the good one no surprise if they reboot it again at least Ancel is back????
 

TKN_Lurker

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