The Offkai 2024 Blacklisting Debacle (and other possible scandals)

[bothyourhouses]

This take annoys me to the extreme, because it's a statement from pure ignorance. It's not an informed take, it is a surface-level observation from people who have never actually looked into any of this material at all, and have formed an opinion based entirely on the generalized impressions of those around them.

The basis of any strong community is informed, educated and principled individuals who are able to communicate their ideas to each other and the outside world effectively and coherently. Staggering amounts of effort by progressive change agents have gone into stopping this. The rot is right at the very core of society, from the education system upwards.

We are dealing with the results right here, right now. Even people like you, who presumably post here because you want to escape the demented echo-chambers of reddit and the astroturfed desert of the imageboards, do not understand the basic meaning of the words and terms you use to define the problem.

When you say 'politisperging', you and everyone like you is simply saying 'I do not wish to be exposed to things that I do not want to acknowledge, which I have been instinctively trained by circumstance to describe as politics'.

Nah. I'm very much aware. I've spent years fighting the good fight, and made significant life changes, at significant cost, to ensure that, for example, my children will not be going through that education system. I do not think these things are unimportant.

But I know the value of my time (and more than that, my focus). We only get a certain number of hours on this planet, and every one you spend getting into slapfights with losers is one where you're not building. Like the IRA or the rebel Americans, they don't need to defeat you in battle, they can win by making it too costly to fight. They don't have families or careers or fun of their own, so they'll always be able to put in more keyboard warrior hours than anyone who's worth anything can. Politicising everything is something they do because it suits their tactics, and if you go along with that then you play right into their hands.

When you spend enough time fighting you forget that the fight is the means not the end, and at that point you've already lost. Make them pay dearly for every hour that you give them, and begrudge the cost even when you win a clear victory. These people's whole goal is to prevent you from having the fulfilling, productive life that comes from honest work, family values, and good clean fun; don't hand that to them on a platter.

Now if you'll excuse me I have a busy evening of watching men with voicechangers make sex jokes.

 

[RestlessRain]

I think the best thing we can do in the culture war is to ignore the culture we don't want, and support and promote the culture we do want.

For example, I used to love Doctor Who, now I just ignore it. I don't hate-watch it, don't watch any criticism or essay videos, don't post in response to articles or discussions or whatever, don't collect merch or goods relating to it, even secondhand. Doctor Who exists and it gets not a single bit of support from me, even indirectly.

The other half of the culture war is to support the content and creators that are doing what you want. For vtubing, that can be as simple as liking, commenting and subscribing to videos and streams of your favourite chuubas and their content. If you can afford it, you might get a membership, send a superchat, commission art, whatever. You can recommend them to other people, make memes and clips of them, and so forth. You know, all that good stuff. Support the talents who make the content you want.

Internet fights are a waste of time and don't win anyone who wasn't already on your side.

 

[famous artist pipkun]

Internet fights are a waste of time and don't win anyone who wasn't already on your side.

There are plenty of fencesitters and "Not Sure/I don't know"s who dont know the issues at hand or why you believe what you believe. those are the people youre trying to win over, not the guy youre arguing with. No man is an island.

 

[RestlessRain]

There are plenty of fencesitters and "Not Sure/I don't know"s who dont know the issues at hand or why you believe what you believe. those are the people youre trying to win over, not the guy youre arguing with. No man is an island.

That's why the second part of my post is just as important as the first. Even if you won an internet argument (lol) where does that leave you? No, you need to instead promote the stuff you like. If someone is on the fence about the culture war and they get good content without all of the political correctness garbage, that's far more convincing than any internet argument I could make.

 

[famous artist pipkun]

That's why the second part of my post is just as important as the first. Even if you won an internet argument (lol) where does that leave you? No, you need to instead promote the stuff you like. If someone is on the fence about the culture war and they get good content without all of the political correctness garbage, that's far more convincing than any internet argument I could make.

what is the product or brand i can promote for "American DEI policies led to poor hiring practices in the state department causing the revocation of militay cooperation pacts,and emoval of U.S. bases in Niger and Chadwhile strengthening russia and china's hold on africa's vast natural resources?"

is there a shaving product or some thing?

 

[MrProcessor]

both Kson and Henya have been politically controversial at points in their career (though it was previous incarnations). Kson has been banned from panels before.

 

[RestlessRain]

what is the product or brand i can promote for "American DEI policies led to poor hiring practices in the state department causing the revocation of militay cooperation pacts,and emoval of U.S. bases in Niger and Chadwhile strengthening russia and china's hold on africa's vast natural resources?"

is there a shaving product or some thing?

We're talking about how the culture war has turned the franchises you loved into the franchises you hate and you want to bring up geopolitical non sequiturs? What internet arguments do you think you're going to win when I even agree with you and I still want to argue with you?

 

[famous artist pipkun]

We're talking about how the culture war has turned the franchises you loved into the franchises you hate and you want to bring up geopolitical non sequiturs? What internet arguments do you think you're going to win when I even agree with you and I still want to argue with you?

that the culture war is more than consumerism thus unavoidable

 

[Sankisei]

both Kson and Henya have been politically controversial at points in their career (though it was previous incarnations). Kson has been banned from panels before.

Dude Kson just said Taiwan once
That isnt political despite what a Chink could tell you
Then again Henya just wanted to play a Game: THAT ALSO SHOULDNT BE POLITICAL DESPITE WHAT A TROON WOULD TELL YOU

 

[VSoyBoy]

both Kson and Henya have been politically controversial at points in their career (though it was previous incarnations). Kson has been banned from panels before.

Thought this was a recent post and had to do a double take at Nazuna.

 

[Latte'Ninba]

both Kson and Henya have been politically controversial at points in their career (though it was previous incarnations). Kson has been banned from panels before.

That's kind of a stretch isn't it? The whole shitshow with Henya was she went on twitter and posted the horrifying, absolutely VILE take of "I want to play game." and got jumped by a bunch of mentally ill retards. It wasn't to "own" anyone and I have a hard time believing she even understood what the fuck happened until someone probably explained it to her later, assuming someone did.
Although to be fair, this sort of ties into the whole situation in a different way by proving that these creatures WILL show up to shit things up regardless.

Kson's odd because she did jump onto a grenade for someone else. But it was also a different issue regarding "politics" though. Saying the name of a specific country to draw heat is a bit different from advocating that Taiwan is independant or something. It was just an easy way to become a target that she took for other people. She hardly carried on about it either, it was very clear what and why she did what she did. There's no follow ups to it and she isn't running around screaming fuck China or anything.


I tend to agree that unfortunately you're not going to be able to just sit back and enjoy things because these shitters WILL eventually go out of their way to inject cancer into it. This situation just sucks because yeah Kirsche says shit against the flow or whatever, but she's being preemptively deplatformed. It's not like she was on site and went on a rant or anything. She got booted out after invite because some worms slinked their way in. No, it's not surprising this happened because of where it is and who is likely to be involved because of that, but it's still handled in a shady way and with obvious bias. They're still willing to slap rainbow shit and "muh raycisms" all over the place so it's seedier than just saying "No politics" or whatever. There's an obvious play being made here which is why it's so fucked up. There's no intent to clean up all views, only someone "mean and bad" who didn't actually do anything offensively related to the con got premeptively booted.

You don't have to agree with anything from Kirsche. See her as a grifter or whatever else you want, but I have to side with the people who are saying that the decision is obviously biased toward one side. If they told everyone no politics and held back all the lghdtvpretend-#% shit it would be at least something I could consider. The people who said it would be more respectable to just outright own up to it being a blatant "fuck you" by saying it instead of doing this sly bullshit and attempt to explain it away are hard for me to disagree with.

 

[BW042]

I'm going to zero in on this because I've been seeing it literally everywhere the past few days.

This take annoys me to the extreme, because it's a statement from pure ignorance. It's not an informed take, it is a surface-level observation from people who have never actually looked into any of this material at all, and have formed an opinion based entirely on the generalized impressions of those around them.

The basis of any strong community is informed, educated and principled individuals who are able to communicate their ideas to each other and the outside world effectively and coherently. Staggering amounts of effort by progressive change agents have gone into stopping this. The rot is right at the very core of society, from the education system upwards.

We are dealing with the results right here, right now. Even people like you, who presumably post here because you want to escape the demented echo-chambers of reddit and the astroturfed desert of the imageboards, do not understand the basic meaning of the words and terms you use to define the problem.

When you say 'politisperging', you and everyone like you is simply saying 'I do not wish to be exposed to things that I do not want to acknowledge, which I have been instinctively trained by circumstance to describe as politics'. Meanwhile, politics remains nothing more than the focused art of convincing or persuading others to adopt your views instead of their own. When leftists say 'everything is political', that is one of the few things they get completely correct. The only difference is that they, too, warp and change the subsequent application of that term, and those associated with it, to mean things that favour their own positions.

Here, let me quote the last person I ever thought I would possibly turn to as a good source for a tl;dr on the subject;



See, much as I will never agree with Pipkun on any major political principle ever, he gets it. This is a culture war, and culture is what separates a man from an animal. It shows your intellectual development, what your priorities are, who you are as a human being. It is this culture that is under attack. You are not angry at the people attacking it, you are angry at the people pointing out that it is under attack, because past the screeching activists you think you can tune out and ignore, much more sophisticated, targeted and subtle social conditioning is at work.

Deciding that you are going to turn from a passive consoomer of culture to a proponent, advocate and defender of the culture that defines who you are as a person is a critical part of maturity and development. When you say these kinds of things, you aren't acting of your own free will. You're saying you are an animal, who will be happily led to the slaughter, because to do otherwise requires exercising muscles you've never used before.

And hell, if you want a salient and interesting example of why just saying 'no politics' doesn't work, here's something for you to read instead of my rambling;

Something to consider: this kind of anti-politics statement doesn't just come from the type of people who are willingly ignorant, it's also a sentiment from people that have put their nose to the grindstone already and burned themselves out on a lack of tangible impact from their efforts, any number of people that went through Gamergate can vouch for that, so can those jaded by the lack of change in the Obama/Trump administrations. It's important that someone remain vocal, but I don't besmirch anyone that opted to eke out what happiness they can in spite of the culture war's ravages.
That being said, I find people actively chipping in just to advocate for apathy are an annoying waste of everyone's time, but I wouldn't go full tilt on assuming that someone is ignorant simply because they don't want to be exposed to politics or put themselves on the front line for every battlefield, not everyone is a soldier. It's important to determine the source of apathy; time will make a fool of the ignorant as something they love gets hit, whilst those burned out should have their reasons for leaving understood to avoid future mistakes. At the very least they should be made to feel like the side of most common sense isn't as extreme as its counterpart.

As for Offkai, while it's disappointing it's not really surprising. Arguing at the presence of other political vtubers pointless though because Kirsche deals with exclusionary politics whilst the other political vtubers operate with (at least on the surface) inclusionary politics. You're just not going to win there and at worst it will just contribute to the perception that Kirsche and fanbase would be a hostile presence for making noise about these other in-group. Same for Niji being removed precisely because there would be too much potential hostility with their presence. It's already a good sign if other vtubers and creators are advocating in favor of her, going the Pippa route of finding acceptance via the cult of personality is a much better win.

A power move would be having someone set up a laptop in a common area on-call to her for people to attend, after all they said she could attend in other capacities. The network would suck, but at least it would show that a congregation of her fanbase isn't the same as a right wing rally.

 

[MrProcessor]

That's kind of a stretch isn't it? The whole shitshow with Henya was she went on twitter and posted the horrifying, absolutely VILE take of "I want to play game." and got jumped by a bunch of mentally ill retards. It wasn't to "own" anyone and I have a hard time believing she even understood what the fuck happened until someone probably explained it to her later, assuming someone did.
Although to be fair, this sort of ties into the whole situation in a different way by proving that these creatures WILL show up to shit things up regardless.

Kson's odd because she did sort of jump onto a grenade for someone else. But it was also a different issue regarding "politics" though. Saying the name of a specific country to draw heat is a bit different from advocating that Taiwan is independant or something. It was just an easy way to become a target that she took for other people. She hardly carried on about it either, it was very clear what and why she did what she did. There's no follow ups to it and she isn't running around screaming fuck China or anything.


I tend to agree that unfortunately you're not going to be able to just sit back and enjoy things because these shitters WILL eventually go out of their way to inject cancer into it. This situation just sucks because yeah Kirsche says shit against the flow or whatever, but she's being preemptively deplatformed. It's not like she was on site and went on a rant or anything. She got booted out after invite because some worms slinked their way in. No, it's not surprising this happened because of where it is and who is likely to be involved because of that, but it's still handled in a shady way and with obvious bias. They're still willing to slap rainbow shit and "muh raycisms" all over the place so it's seedier than just saying "No politics" or whatever. There's an obvious play being made here which is why it's so fucked up. There's no intent to clean up all views, only someone "mean and bad" who didn't actually do anything offensively related to the con got premeptively booted.

You don't have to agree with anything from Kirsche. See her as a grifter or whatever else you want, but I have to side with the people who are saying that the decision is obviously biased toward one side. If they told everyone no politics and held back all the lghdtvpretend-#% shit it would be at least something I could consider. The people who said it would be more respectable to just outright own up to it being a blatant "fuck you" by saying it instead of doing this sly bullshit and attempt to explain it away are hard for me to disagree with.

What I actually think is that if Henya was still Pikamee she might get banned from Offkai for "politics" even though as you said she didn't do anything political. I remember when the hate mob went after Pikamee, they were quite unhinged and digging through her old tweets to find anything they could to get her cancelled. Then they took what they found and lied about it blatantly. It was quite overwhelming and stressful for her.

With Kson, even after retiring as Coco, she still got cancelled by Playism as Kson for fear of offending Chinese investors. I agree that neither of Kson or Henya are really political. However, Kson does still cherish her Taiwanese fans, which as tensions heat up over there might eventually cause problems for her. (She goes over there to do events now and then.) It's true this is probably far less likely at a California convention since China doesn't have as much power there.

Anyway, I don't believe it will stop with Kirsche just because she's "overtly political." (Though for me I don't see DEI and Bridge in arts and letters, including vTubing as simple politics. It's more about giving creative control of arts and letters to ignorant, talentless morons with no taste because they tell you it's politically necessary.)

 

[RestlessRain]

that the culture war is more than consumerism thus unavoidable

And you arguing on the internet isn't changing shit. If you really want to make political change, you'd apply for a position of authority and affect change through that, even if it was something as minor as a school P&C board.

 

[famous artist pipkun]

And you arguing on the internet isn't changing shit. If you really want to make political change, you'd apply for a position of authority and affect change through that, even if it was something as minor as a school P&C board.

what you're describing is facebook and nextdoor.

 

[NeneHATE]

Something to consider: this kind of anti-politics statement doesn't just come from the type of people who are willingly ignorant, it's also a sentiment from people that have put their nose to the grindstone already and burned themselves out on a lack of tangible impact from their efforts, any number of people that went through Gamergate can vouch for that, so can those jaded by the lack of change in the Obama/Trump administrations. It's important that someone remain vocal, but I don't besmirch anyone that opted to eke out what happiness they can in spite of the culture war's ravages..

THIS.
Sometimes you just wanna live your fucking life you know? and you question "Why the FUCK do I as an individual have to take care of all of these complex social issues which I didn't create (because no single person can change all of society) and argue endlessly and pointlessly with these fucking fags who hate me, my ideas and wouldn't mind seeing me dead on the street. Fighting them rarely accomplishes anything but cementing yourself as their enemy and having to go create some reverse safe space which is gonna eventually be infected by unfunny edgelords anyway which will only vindicate these people."

I do not think this issue can be solved by arguing with these people, they are completely deaf because modern day politics is basically religion, either ignore them or make your own groups which exclude them, most of the population doesn't care because they don't have time to care. If society changes it won't be through shit like gamergate, it will just be the silent majority and working classes finally getting pissed off and sending all of these bastards to the shooting range. I do not believe screeching "freedom of speech" changes anything, despite freedom of all kinds being the value I hold dearest, this is a pointless loosing battle.

If anything the real enemy is the conditions which created these people and the technology which worsens their behavior and allows their leaders to brainwash more people than ever.

 

[Latte'Ninba]

What I actually think is that if Henya was still Pikamee she might get banned from Offkai for "politics" even though as you said she didn't do anything political. I remember when the hate mob went after Pikamee, they were quite unhinged and digging through her old tweets to find anything they could to get her cancelled. Then they took what they found and lied about it blatantly. It was quite overwhelming and stressful for her.

With Kson, even after retiring as Coco, she still got cancelled by Playism as Kson for fear of offending Chinese investors. I agree that neither of Kson or Henya are really political. However, Kson does still cherish her Taiwanese fans, which as tensions heat up over there might eventually cause problems for her. (She goes over there to do events now and then.) It's true this is probably far less likely at a California convention since China doesn't have as much power there.

Anyway, I don't believe it will stop with Kirsche just because she's "overtly political." (Though for me I don't see DEI and Bridge in arts and letters, including vTubing as simple politics. It's more about giving creative control of arts and letters to ignorant, talentless morons with no taste because they tell you it's politically necessary.)

It's always hard to judge since we're past the point it could happen. I could see that having maybe been pushed by a small fringe if she stayed Pikamee but who knows. I actually feel like the bigger take away would be that none of them regretted a single thing and felt entirely vindicated because she came back. It "didn't matter" they were lying sacks of shit causing her stress because "It wasn't that bad, she came back and was already planning to graduate!" That part's more relevant to me than the what ifs. I think it's important to realize and remember what type of people they are then treat them as such. Which frankly I feel a lot of the time is to laugh at them while you show off they're garbage human beings.

Kson did get screwed there, but she's recovered nicely overall. Hell she got into Yakuza so clearly she's living her life well I would say. I don't think there's much to latch onto for people who might want to really cause her issues.

And I mean it sort of didn't start with Kirsche either if we take the call that they tried canceling Pippa last year as truth. So I don't think it ends here either. Hell we have that assclown pushing a 30 minute video of lying bullshit as it is. So you're not wrong that there's too many morons getting support purely because other morons want to fight wars over bullshit to feel good about themselves.

While I agree with the general sentiment being held here that the situation is mostly nonsense against Kirsche I'm not convinced it's the hill to die on either. Even if Kirsche got back in the whole thing's just going to become a bigger shitshow and tumble around before it starts fucking with even more people. Call everything out so people can make their own decisions sure. But forcing it to become a battleground just causes issues for everyone. You aren't going to change minds here by slapfighting on twitter with keyboards. You're just going to have to hope that getting info out there is enough to have people think about things instead of eating whatever news reel they get fed. You can't force things on people. That's why there's kickback like this in the first place. The bigger you make the fire the more it's likely to burn bystanders and people unrelated.

Whole thing is just an unpleasant shitshow and I wish that I could enjoy a hobby without this cancer eventually forcing it's way in. Unfortunately busybodies do their best to make sure that doesn't work.

 

[famous artist pipkun]

THIS.
Sometimes you just wanna live your fucking life you know? and you question "Why the FUCK do I as an individual have to take care of all of these complex social issues which I didn't create (because no single person can change all of society) and argue endlessly and pointlessly with these fucking fags who hate me, my ideas and wouldn't mind seeing me dead on the street. Fighting them rarely accomplishes anything but cementing yourself as their enemy and having to go create some reverse safe space which is gonna eventually be infected by unfunny edgelords anyway which will only vindicate these people."

I do not think this issue can be solved by arguing with these people, they are completely deaf because modern day politics is basically religion, either ignore them or make your own groups which exclude them, most of the population doesn't care because they don't have time to care. If society changes it won't be through shit like gamergate, it will just be the silent majority and working classes finally getting pissed off and sending all of these bastards to the shooting range. I do not believe screeching "freedom of speech" changes anything, despite freedom of all kinds being the value I hold dearest, this is a pointless loosing battle.

If anything the real enemy is the conditions which created these people and the technology which worsens their behavior and allows their leaders to brainwash more people than ever.

This is line of thought disproven when Trump came down the escalator in 2015. How did the silent majority get behind trump? the great meme war was a real propaganda war and there were real consequences (ricky vaughn MVP) for participants. like the people you say are brainwashed, the pro trump side appealed to the human condition: their concerns, their financial situation, their nostalgia, their ideals. no one expected Trump to win, the MSM and the uniparty pushed their talking points hard.

so how did the silent majority back trump? his supporters were arguing online and irl and the fence sitters and "unsure/i don't know"s chose a side. The shit works and the online places that contributed to it were dismantled for it.

you're in the culture whether you acknowledge it or not.

 

[NeneHATE]

This is line of thought disproven when Trump came down the escalator in 2015. How did the silent majority get behind trump? the great meme war was a real propaganda war and there were real consequences (ricky vaughn MVP) for participants. like the people you say are brainwashed, the pro trump side appealed to the human condition: their concerns, their financial situation, their nostalgia, their ideals. no one expected Trump to win, the MSM and the uniparty pushed their talking points hard.

so how did the silent majority back trump? his supporters were arguing online and irl and the fence sitters and "unsure/i don't know"s chose a side. The shit works and the online places that contributed to it were dismantled for it.

you're in the culture whether you acknowledge it or not.

Nah, because I don't live in the US. My country has religious right, democratic right and populist right, the commies only get like 0.1% of the vote. Idk about you but maybe you amerifats should fix your own fucking issues or kill off the libs if you hate them so much. Fuck globalization.

 

[famous artist pipkun]

Nah, because I don't live in the US. My country has religious right, democratic right and populist right, the commies only get like 0.1% of the vote. Idk about you but maybe you amerifats should fix your own fucking issues or kill off the libs if you hate them so much. Fuck globalization.

im sure your pisspot sandanistas had a chance and blew it.