General Vtuber Discussion (V1)

[Realticule]

I didn't like that show, but there's something deeply satisfying about watching Superman murder all those lousy second-rate losers in the justice league. Almost as satisfying as watching Jonah Hex kill that namby-pamby flying blue boyscout Superman that one time.

The one thing Invincible did well was shock value, but even then it was on the lower end of that. The dad did make a lot of good points.

Sure they were made for kids and are old as fuck, but stuff like Samurai Jack and TMNT 2003 count because they have a lot of shit you REALLY don't appreciate until you get older, like the fucking horrifying Lovecraft or underground mutants episodes from TMNT 2003.

I couldn't get into Samurai Jack even when I was younger just because I don't like Genndy's art style, but I can give it credit for trying. I think at one point Pan pitched his cartoon to Genndy and others, during a live broadcast and asked them "wouldn't you fuck a cartoon character if you could?" It became very uncomfortable for everyone in that video call.

I remember Teen Titans being fun when I was young, but that got turned into a "lawls so random" remake. Not sure if it would hold up if I watched any of it now.

 

[GOD'S STRONGEST BUILDERBEAR]

Sure they were made for kids and are old as fuck, but stuff like Samurai Jack and TMNT 2003 count because they have a lot of shit you REALLY don't appreciate until you get older, like the fucking horrifying Lovecraft or underground mutants episodes from TMNT 2003.

Or batman the animated series. Or men in black. Come to think about it, a lot of older 2000s cartoons had a lot adult themes that dont involve sex, drugs, explicit violence or jokes about any of above.

What about an adult cartoon about an asylum full of mental defectives led by another mental defective?

Superjail?

 

[The Proctor]

Pippa's making a good point about adult cartoons, and old school Simpsons were best when Homer was a loveable but well meaning dumbass instead of of a Peter Griffin clone. Also, the guy who made Family Guy (Seth Rogan?) is intolerable, when he showed up on Shark Tank to help some guy with his pitch he wouldn't shut the fuck up and it reminds me of this game.

Has there been an adult oriented animation in the west that wasn't comedy or porn though? I feel like anime actually tries to make some adult shows that fall outside of those.

Just about all adult cartoons in the west seem to be made by angry, hateful, misanthropic cunts who only ever seem to want to depict the worst, most miserable aspects of existence. I know of absolutely no popular/relevant adult cartoons that have any sense of wonder, energy or mystery to them. There's nothing deep or existential, just annoying shit about how miserable everyone is and how much of a fucking moron you are for daring to believe anything could be better than it is.

Maybe that's just me, mind you. Maybe there's a ton of that stuff out there. But it certainly doesn't get much attention.

 

[pururun]

Just about all adult cartoons in the west seem to be made by angry, hateful, misanthropic cunts who only ever seem to want to depict the worst, most miserable aspects of existence. I know of absolutely no popular/relevant adult cartoons that have any sense of wonder, energy or mystery to them. There's nothing deep or existential, just annoying shit about how miserable everyone is and how much of a fucking moron you are for daring to believe anything could be better than it is.

A lot of this stems from people working on cartoons in the west seeing them as a jumping off point to "real" work in live action, or are just people who couldn't hack it in the live action world and are stuck in animation. These people don't really care about animation and might not even be able to draw at all. There's also the issue that these types actively go against having good animation because it'll distract from their writing, hence why early Simpsons got criticized for the animation being too lively and later seasons are really stiff.

 

[Realticule]

Just about all adult cartoons in the west seem to be made by angry, hateful, misanthropic cunts who only ever seem to want to depict the worst, most miserable aspects of existence. I know of absolutely no popular/relevant adult cartoons that have any sense of wonder, energy or mystery to them. There's nothing deep or existential, just annoying shit about how miserable everyone is and how much of a fucking moron you are for daring to believe anything could be better than it is.

Maybe that's just me, mind you. Maybe there's a ton of that stuff out there. But it certainly doesn't get much attention.

I'm with you on that. I only watched Spirited Away earlier this year, and ended up watching a couple other movies from the Gibli studio, mostly because it was different seeing the focus on world building and there not really being a traditional villain. Even in Spirited Away and Mononoke which have villains they're not exactly the normal kind that need to be beaten in combat but more of just an agent in the world that can be overcome peacefully. They're more of just a shitty person than some world ending wizard.

 

[Titanosaurus]

I think Venture Bros is the best adult cartoon. It's unfortunate that over time "reference to thing" in adult cartoons became so over done and shitty, but I think Venture Bros has so many more original things and actual clever parodies that it's still really good. It's kind of the opposite of "hey remember this thing" as this thing is going to be re-appearing in many episodes for years and years.

 

[Audi Vide Tace]

I'm with you on that. I only watched Spirited Away earlier this year, and ended up watching a couple other movies from the Gibli studio, mostly because it was different seeing the focus on world building and there not really being a traditional villain. Even in Spirited Away and Mononoke which have villains they're not exactly the normal kind that need to be beaten in combat but more of just an agent in the world that can be overcome peacefully. They're more of just a shitty person than some world ending wizard.

Over the Gardenwall was a popular mini-series that would be of a similar archetype to Spirited Away IMO. Still technically a kid's show, however (technically so is spirited away though).

 

[Godzilla1984]

Over the Gardenwall was a popular mini-series that would be of a similar archetype to Spirited Away IMO. Still technically a kid's show, however (technically so is spirited away though).

To sell Over the Garden Wall some more: Literally Dante's Inferno.

 

[reinigen]

Pippa's making a good point about adult cartoons, and old school Simpsons were best when Homer was a loveable but well meaning dumbass instead of of a Peter Griffin clone. Also, the guy who made Family Guy (Seth Rogan?) is intolerable, when he showed up on Shark Tank to help some guy with his pitch he wouldn't shut the fuck up and it reminds me of this game.

Has there been an adult oriented animation in the west that wasn't comedy or porn though? I feel like anime actually tries to make some adult shows that fall outside of those.

There used to be a few. Spawn, The Maxx, Aeon Flux, When the Wind Blows. Sadly it's always been pretty scarce.

A lot of this stems from people working on cartoons in the west seeing them as a jumping off point to "real" work in live action, or are just people who couldn't hack it in the live action world and are stuck in animation. These people don't really care about animation and might not even be able to draw at all. There's also the issue that these types actively go against having good animation because it'll distract from their writing, hence why early Simpsons got criticized for the animation being too lively and later seasons are really stiff.

The real big reason is that animation in America is seen as a joke to most film makers, and it's relegated to being a genre of movies/shows aimed at kids and comedy shows rather than as a medium for which to tell stories. There's a reason the "Best Animated Film" category of the Oscars is called the "Disney/Pixar" award. It's talked about fairly openly that most of the Oscar voting body never watches all of the animated films (if any) and typically think about which movies their kids of seen. Which of course defaults to the Mouse.

There's a much bigger push nowadays in order to see animation as a medium to tell stories from some major influencers in Hollywood, most notably Guillermo del Toro and his true to the source material Pinocchio.

Also with the smashing success of Arcane and Cyberpunk Edgerunners recently, I'm hoping to see animation and its uses expand more in the West.

 

[Zizara]

"So many of the changes World made were just frustrating, like navigating the maps. This is why Monster Hunter Rise is good and World is not"

How can one man be so wrong. Absolute skill issue.

Edit: and he's a Lance user. Longsword users might be dumb, but Lance players are mentally disturbed.

 

[GOD'S STRONGEST BUILDERBEAR]

Honestly nuke california

 

[Realticule]

I think Venture Bros is the best adult cartoon. It's unfortunate that over time "reference to thing" in adult cartoons became so over done and shitty, but I think Venture Bros has so many more original things and actual clever parodies that it's still really good. It's kind of the opposite of "hey remember this thing" as this thing is going to be re-appearing in many episodes for years and years.

I've seen some clips from it and it's funny, same with Archer, but the reason I was wondering specifically about not comedy options is because it sometimes feels like comedy animation is only acceptable because it's seen as if the animation is secondary and it's not a serious thing. Something that's kind of bothered me in a lot of media as it feels more and more like everything has to be sarcastic instead of someone taking a risk and making something they want to be serious, even if it falls on its face.

Even remakes or sequels of what were originally more serious properties now need to shove in some winking at the camera. Just makes it feel soulless.

Over the Gardenwall was a popular mini-series that would be of a similar archetype to Spirited Away IMO. Still technically a kid's show, however (technically so is spirited away though).

Spirited away is definitely a kid's movie, but it does hold up. I was actually thinking about why I feel Disney movies don't hold up once you're older, and I think it's that all of them focus on a conflict with a central villain because it's an easy writing shortcut to convey an idea. Compare something like Little Mermaid and Panyo, as both are for very little kids, but if I had to pick one to watch or have my kids watch in the future it would be Panyo simply because it's a fun visual movie that explores its own little world and doesn't lean on the crutch of some super villain.

I'm not calling it high art, just that I think it's a form of story telling we don't really have anymore where there isn't an obvious villain. It's also probably a better form of story telling for kids, as it actually presents some nuance instead of the typical.

 

[2DUM4U]

To sell Over the Garden Wall some more: Literally Dante's Inferno.

As such, however, it's sorely lacking in the "people tormented forever in rivers of boiling blood and piss" department.

As for """"adult""" cartoons, I still say they peaked in 1929 (NSFW).

 

[Realticule]

Tartarians brought up in Pippa's chat, the beanie servant Andreas is trying to infiltrate her streams!

 

[superduper]

I hate my life, cartoons have fallen so far from grace. American media has fallen from grace. I have to deal with being SoCal, so please feel free to kill me now.

 

[NeneHATE]

People who call animation a genre should be hung, it's a medium of creative expression fucking swine.

 

[Punished Anime Discusser]

"So many of the changes World made were just frustrating, like navigating the maps. This is why Monster Hunter Rise is good and World is not"

How can one man be so wrong. Absolute skill issue.

Edit: and he's a Lance user. Longsword users might be dumb, but Lance players are mentally disturbed.

World blows ass and Rise blows ass harder. They raped the balance, they raped the gameplay, they raped the artstyle, they raped the UI, they raped the music and they raped the game design. Capcom unironically put out a second DmC-tier game and they fucking got away with it because nobody played Monster Hunter in the west.

 

[DelusionTree]

Pippa's making a good point about adult cartoons, and old school Simpsons were best when Homer was a loveable but well meaning dumbass instead of of a Peter Griffin clone. Also, the guy who made Family Guy (Seth Rogan?) is intolerable, when he showed up on Shark Tank to help some guy with his pitch he wouldn't shut the fuck up and it reminds me of this game.

Has there been an adult oriented animation in the west that wasn't comedy or porn though? I feel like anime actually tries to make some adult shows that fall outside of those.

Seth MacFarlane's entire career is one long joke, seeing how far long he can get away with writing the same fucking TV show beats over and over again.
Apparently almost nobody has noticed yet.

 

[BlueSharkTV]

Kronii stream in one hour

 

[Audi Vide Tace]

I've seen some clips from it and it's funny, same with Archer, but the reason I was wondering specifically about not comedy options is because it sometimes feels like comedy animation is only acceptable because it's seen as if the animation is secondary and it's not a serious thing. Something that's kind of bothered me in a lot of media as it feels more and more like everything has to be sarcastic instead of someone taking a risk and making something they want to be serious, even if it falls on its face.

Even remakes or sequels of what were originally more serious properties now need to shove in some winking at the camera. Just makes it feel soulless.

Spirited away is definitely a kid's movie, but it does hold up. I was actually thinking about why I feel Disney movies don't hold up once you're older, and I think it's that all of them focus on a conflict with a central villain because it's an easy writing shortcut to convey an idea. Compare something like Little Mermaid and Panyo, as both are for very little kids, but if I had to pick one to watch or have my kids watch in the future it would be Panyo simply because it's a fun visual movie that explores its own little world and doesn't lean on the crutch of some super villain.

I'm not calling it high art, just that I think it's a form of story telling we don't really have anymore where there isn't an obvious villain. It's also probably a better form of story telling for kids, as it actually presents some nuance instead of the typical.

Most Disney-esque movies are pretty much the same cookie-cutter format. They are all exceedingly simple and whimsical alongside being tied in with well-done animation (usually), which is a large reason why they are popular kid's movies. It zealously relies on simplistic tropes, which means there is a lot less unique interpretations that can be had from such a story.

Spirited Away (and to the same extent OTGW) are similar in the whimsical nature aspect, but they also balance it with darker undertones. The writing is more subtle, and allows for the ability to derive more/different meaning(s) from the material. In OTGW for example, the villain is viewed as bad/evil, but how that villain operates, and what IS the villain, is how the series progresses through the plotline.