General Thread v2: Enhanced Segregation Techniques!

[Porean]

Unrelated, but is there a playlist of all the Watchalongs Amiya has done? Figure you're the best person to ask.

They are unsorted in this playlist, but just send a Marshmallow asking for a separate playlist and I'll bet she'll make it

 

[Aquatic Novellite]

What have Idol Corp talents actually done that Cover would bar its members from?

Well, Yuko's special lemonade sales campaign, I suppose. Would've been nice of that article to mention what precisely Idol Corp freedom entails.

There you have it, folks.

Polygon wants more ringo in vtubing.

 

[Godzilla1984]

Then why did you recently follow me on here?

Gangstalking.

 

[Bernkastel]

VTubers have reached their inevitable conclusion

We dig into the pros and cons of VTuber agency representation, and look at how the industry has evolved since its peak in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic.

www.polygon.com

https://archive.ph/wip/FfBSC

Interesting article

Allegedly, it cites a "source at Nijisanji" which seems to be a talent, nothing behind the scenes


View attachment 51425

Anyone who thinks vtubing has peaked

Weebs from 2009 won't believe Crunchyroll would be so big. Neither will any gamers from a decade ago will believe how mainstream gaming became. 2020 may be over, but everyday new people are being dragged into this hobby. By 2030, 4views and 5views would be much more common. Japan is just ahead, but rest of the world will soon follow.

 

[Stunned But Dumb]

Weebs from 2009 won't believe Crunchyroll would be so big. Neither will any gamers from a decade ago will believe how mainstream gaming became. 2020 may be over, but everyday new people are being dragged into this hobby. By 2030, 4views and 5views would be much more common. Japan is just ahead, but rest of the world will soon follow.

I like the positive outlook and agree with the sentiment, this just me being petty really, but modern Crunchyroll and mainstream gaming aren't exactly the ideal examples for what I'd hope Vtubing to become in the future.

 

[Todd's Strongest Howard]

Anyone who thinks vtubing has peaked

Weebs from 2009 won't believe Crunchyroll would be so big. Neither will any gamers from a decade ago will believe how mainstream gaming became. 2020 may be over, but everyday new people are being dragged into this hobby. By 2030, 4views and 5views would be much more common. Japan is just ahead, but rest of the world will soon follow.

If you told me in 2000 that I'd have become invested in watching some cartoon women play old games from my childhood 22~23 years down the line I would have thought you were on drugs. Now we're here. Reality is kind of a joke.

 

[Watamate]

Moom & Tear

 

[Zinnaha]

Anyone who thinks vtubing has peaked

Weebs from 2009 won't believe Crunchyroll would be so big. Neither will any gamers from a decade ago will believe how mainstream gaming became. 2020 may be over, but everyday new people are being dragged into this hobby. By 2030, 4views and 5views would be much more common. Japan is just ahead, but rest of the world will soon follow.

Vtubing peaked in the west because the western world and culture has an absolutely amazing talent for oversaturating, pumping and dumping hobbies and new forms of entertainment to the point when the bubble bursts only the early adapters and those lucky enough to be blessed by algorithms survive, especially seeing how they shifted vtubing from "hehe I'm a cute anime girl/boy separate from my IRL' to "I'm an egirl/femboy with an onlyfans who want to occasionally use an avatar" type bandwagon. I won't say it's on the decline, but it's definitely at its peak in the west while in asia it's heading for a plateau since it's still niche but has enough reach people are recognizing vtubers compared to 2017.

 

[Awoogers]

HUH


is she actually being functional right now i cant fucking believe this

 

[The Rrat]

it's still niche

I'm not sure I agree with this assessment from the standpoint of the Japanese streaming community. Maybe in the grand-scheme of the Japanese entertainment industry, it is more niche than other parts, but it seems to have dominated its relevent markets and even grown streaming as a whole in Japan. They also have more or less conqured Japanese otaku culture.

The fact that Holo and Niji have some members that rival viewership to Western Twitch streamers is massive, given western markets reach far more people than people exclusively streaming in Japanese.

I do agree that 2020-2021 was probably the peak for VTubing in the West, though. Something major would have to happen to change that, but otherwise I think it will remain steady with both normal highs and lows.

Spoiler: You know what? Let's actually review this sharticle:

"Twitch has always allowed for various forms of expression, so it was no surprise when VTubing found a home on the platform, quickly gaining popularity among English-speaking audiences in 2019."
Well if you wanted your westoid bias then there it is, article about chuubas and the first word is fucking twitch, nice one. And no, vtubing didn't "gain popularity with EOPs in 2019", everybody knows english vtubing began in 2020 or very late 2019 if you want to be pedantic, but it definitely didn't begin on twitch and this article literally contradicts this later on.

"Since then, the novelty of avatar-based content may have worn off, but the format has stuck around."
So they see it as a dumb gimmick, well there is your second red flag that this writer likes vshojo.

"VTubing exploded onto the wider North American and European markets when Cover Corporation launched the English branch of Hololive Production in 2020."
Nice contradiction bro.

"Many creators that jumped on the trend have since stopped using their avatars, but at the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, there was a large increase in VTubers on Twitch and other streaming platforms, like YouTube, as models and equipment became more accessible to the general public."
This paragraph reads weird and it gives a strange sense of the timeline, the equipment became more accessible in 2018-19, the large increase happened in 2020 when covid was going on, and the grifters stopped latching onto the trend in 2021-2022 when covid ended.

"Twitch has since gone on to highlight a wide variety of VTubers through its VTuber Takeover promotion"
Never heard of it, also twitch, again.

"Twitch also reported that VTubing-related content on the platform shot up by some 350% between January and August 2022. Despite this, some have argued that the VTubing bubble has all but burst."
That "some" link leads to a fucking kotaku article that says the exact same shit, when you cite stuff like this please cite experts or at least people who are knowledgeable about the subject, not the other journos you're in cahoots with to shape narratives.

“I do feel that VTubing has become less novel as the market has become more saturated,” says a streamer with agency Nijisanji who is not approved to speak publicly. “There are obviously some ups and downs when it comes to working with an agency as well, which requires a lot of patience if I’m honest. And there are some decisions that are made that sometimes don’t make a lot of sense.”
If this is indeed vox and he doesn't watch other chuubas then yeah, it's pretty fucking embarrassing. Also "Who is not approved to speak publicly", you can say anything you want about niji but what are you expecting? For them to just say "yeah go shittalk us to some journos so they can twist your words into their own industry bashing narrative!" fuck you journo scum.

“Seeing agencies like Hololive and Nijisanji shut down entire branches or graduate talents without any real kind of information is heartbreaking for just about everyone involved in the process,” the source says.

In 2020, Hololive shuttered its Chinese division, graduating more than a handful of streamers."
But you aren't going to tell us WHY they graduated those chinese talents huh? Suits your narrative to just say that and pretend it was holo being evil I guess.

"Both Hololive and Nijisanji give creators very little freedom in terms of presentation, whereas newer agencies such as Idol allow talents to create their own concepts. While that may feel overwhelming to some, it allows for the talents behind these models to flex their creativity and create a persona that otherwise wouldn’t fit neatly into the clearly defined boxes some agencies slot them into."
Ah yes, gotta love the jews, gotta love that freedom. You know that I really hate how Niji fucks up and now Holo is tarred with the same brush? Get your fucking shit together you're making us all look bad and giving these parasites a narrative to follow.

“Agencies should allow for talents to experiment, so long as it isn’t hurting anyone,” says the source. “Let people fail and still have that opportunity for growth in the future. More risk-taking and trying to branch out in other ways instead of simply just streaming or following preestablished methods.”
I don't completely disagree with this, but if you just say it without context or nuance it feels like agencies do not experiment whatsoever, and that experimentation has no consequences other than just the abstract concept of "failing". Failing in this industry will mark your image for life, corpos are held to their failures for years after the fact by rabid legions of internet obsessives, and you really ignore the fact that the big two you so seem to despise are the ones who have pushed the industry forward all of these years.

"According to both of the people we interviewed for this story, this is an agreed-upon sentiment — that to prevent further stagnation, this not-so-niche form of content creation needs to reinvent itself and allow more freedom to its talents. Time will tell if larger agencies like Hololive (which reported 50% growth in its 2023 financial report) and Nijisanji will allow their talents to break the mold."
You interview two people, one of whom is clearly unhappy with their position and the other is a nobody, they don't represent the entire community. There are things called "polls" that you can do to gage public opinion. Also funny how big corpos are "stagnating the industry" by not changing but Holo reported a 50% growth, fucking ironic.

This journo has an obvious western bias, and doesn't once account for how massive vtubing is in japan and asia in general. Vtubing in the west has stagnated because it's full of boring, bland vtweeters and twitch nobodies who spend 2k bucks on a model with huge titties and expect to get rich off of that. Niji dropped the ball sure, but that doesn't mean EVERYONE is decaying. Also I get the feeling this guy would love Vshojo (even though they restrained themselves to not mention them) even when vshojo chuubas stolen from other corpos have a proven track record of NOT breaking the mold like they did before and just settling into cushy generic roles, I guess giving people talent freedom doesn't equate with better content.

Post this in the comments section of the site. Would love to see them lose their collective shit over it.
 Nvm

 

[Stunned But Dumb]

I think one of Reimu's fans got the Sonic VA, Jason Griffith, to record this

Context:

 

[Nenélove]

I'm not sure I agree with this assessment from the standpoint of the Japanese streaming community. Maybe in the grand-scheme of the Japanese entertainment industry, it is more niche than other parts, but it seems to have dominated its relevent markets and even grown streaming as a whole in Japan. They also have more or less conqured Japanese otaku culture.

The fact that Holo and Niji have some members that rival viewership to Western Twitch streamers is massive, given western markets reach far more people than people exclusively streaming in Japanese.

I do agree that 2020-2021 was probably the peak for VTubing in the West, though. Something major would have to happen to change that, but otherwise I think it will remain steady with both normal highs and lows.


Post this in the comments section of the site. Would love to see them lose their collective shit over it.

That would be cowtiping and I don't wanna get screamed at by le procter, if anyone else wants to do it then feel free. Also don't you need to make an account there to post? Seems like too much work.

The comment has a very high chance to get deleted/not register in anyone's head since the language is so harsh and one-sided. You guys don't mind it because you know about vtubing and know I'm arguably right, but people online really HATE things which express a one-sided point without considering other opinions (reddit bullshit).

 

[YGO Link Monster]

"Both Hololive and Nijisanji give creators very little freedom in terms of presentation, whereas newer agencies such as Idol allow talents to create their own concepts. While that may feel overwhelming to some, it allows for the talents behind these models to flex their creativity and create a persona that otherwise wouldn’t fit neatly into the clearly defined boxes some agencies slot them into."

This smells like some Nice Kike Coins

“Agencies should allow for talents to experiment, so long as it isn’t hurting anyone,” says the source. “Let people fail and still have that opportunity for growth in the future. More risk-taking and trying to branch out in other ways instead of simply just streaming or following preestablished methods.”

Vox when Nijisanji doesnt allow him to do Infinite BFE RP videos:

 

[Hff201]

VTubers have reached their inevitable conclusion

We dig into the pros and cons of VTuber agency representation, and look at how the industry has evolved since its peak in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic.

www.polygon.com

https://archive.ph/wip/FfBSC

Interesting article

Allegedly, it cites a "source at Nijisanji" which seems to be a talent, nothing behind the scenes


View attachment 51425

I think there can be a constructive conversation around stagnation or saturation, just wouldn't want Polygon at that table lol. Ideally you'd want to have that conversation headed by people actually in the business. Like Cover/Niji's COO, hiring manager, or growth strategist.

Saturation is definitely a demonstrable metric. Gen after Gen you can watch and measure in real time slower growth curves, an exception here or there sure, but yeah. Recently on JPTwitter, maybe a week or two ago, there was a busy topic about there now being more Vtubers in Japan then there are animators. Something like 25k Vtubers, just in Japan alone.

"Stagnation" and "oversaturation" are words that look damning from a big-picture industry perspective, but on a streamer-by-streamer basis I don't think it matters that much. We're never gonna see early-Myth level buzz around vtubing again, that kind of mainstream presence has had its day, but there are plenty of vtubers both independent and corpo who continue to entertain their fans and support themselves. It's not like the medium's going anywhere just because some journo's Twitter friends don't post Gura memes as often as they used to.

 

[Nenélove]

View attachment 51429


"Stagnation" and "oversaturation" are words that look damning from a big-picture industry perspective, but on a streamer-by-streamer basis I don't think it matters that much. We're never gonna see early-Myth level buzz around vtubing again, that kind of mainstream presence has had its day, but there are plenty of vtubers both independent and corpo who continue to entertain their fans and support themselves. It's not like the medium's going anywhere just because some journo's Twitter friends don't post Gura memes as often as they used to.

Hmm, maybe it's because... idk... CORPOS BEGAN THIS ENTIRE INDUSTRY?!

 

[The Rrat]

That would be cowtiping and I don't wanna get screamed at by le procter, if anyone else wants to do it then feel free. Also don't you need to make an account there to post? Seems like too much work.

Eh, I guess that is fair. I didn't teally think of it as cowtipping, but I guess it technically would be.

 

[httn]

Unrelated, but is there a playlist of all the Watchalongs Amiya has done? Figure you're the best person to ask.

playlist

 

[Awoogers]

Spoiler: You know what? Let's actually review this sharticle:

"Twitch has always allowed for various forms of expression, so it was no surprise when VTubing found a home on the platform, quickly gaining popularity among English-speaking audiences in 2019."
Well if you wanted your westoid bias then there it is, article about chuubas and the first word is fucking twitch, nice one. And no, vtubing didn't "gain popularity with EOPs in 2019", everybody knows english vtubing began in 2020 or very late 2019 if you want to be pedantic, but it definitely didn't begin on twitch and this article literally contradicts this later on.

"Since then, the novelty of avatar-based content may have worn off, but the format has stuck around."
So they see it as a dumb gimmick, well there is your second red flag that this writer likes vshojo.

"VTubing exploded onto the wider North American and European markets when Cover Corporation launched the English branch of Hololive Production in 2020."
Nice contradiction bro.

"Many creators that jumped on the trend have since stopped using their avatars, but at the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, there was a large increase in VTubers on Twitch and other streaming platforms, like YouTube, as models and equipment became more accessible to the general public."
This paragraph reads weird and it gives a strange sense of the timeline, the equipment became more accessible in 2018-19, the large increase happened in 2020 when covid was going on, and the grifters stopped latching onto the trend in 2021-2022 when covid ended.

"Twitch has since gone on to highlight a wide variety of VTubers through its VTuber Takeover promotion"
Never heard of it, also twitch, again.

"Twitch also reported that VTubing-related content on the platform shot up by some 350% between January and August 2022. Despite this, some have argued that the VTubing bubble has all but burst."
That "some" link leads to a fucking kotaku article that says the exact same shit, when you cite stuff like this please cite experts or at least people who are knowledgeable about the subject, not the other journos you're in cahoots with to shape narratives.

“I do feel that VTubing has become less novel as the market has become more saturated,” says a streamer with agency Nijisanji who is not approved to speak publicly. “There are obviously some ups and downs when it comes to working with an agency as well, which requires a lot of patience if I’m honest. And there are some decisions that are made that sometimes don’t make a lot of sense.”
If this is indeed vox and he doesn't watch other chuubas then yeah, it's pretty fucking embarrassing. Also "Who is not approved to speak publicly", you can say anything you want about niji but what are you expecting? For them to just say "yeah go shittalk us to some journos so they can twist your words into their own industry bashing narrative!" fuck you journo scum.

“Seeing agencies like Hololive and Nijisanji shut down entire branches or graduate talents without any real kind of information is heartbreaking for just about everyone involved in the process,” the source says.

In 2020, Hololive shuttered its Chinese division, graduating more than a handful of streamers."
But you aren't going to tell us WHY they graduated those chinese talents huh? Suits your narrative to just say that and pretend it was holo being evil I guess.

"Both Hololive and Nijisanji give creators very little freedom in terms of presentation, whereas newer agencies such as Idol allow talents to create their own concepts. While that may feel overwhelming to some, it allows for the talents behind these models to flex their creativity and create a persona that otherwise wouldn’t fit neatly into the clearly defined boxes some agencies slot them into."
Ah yes, gotta love the jews, gotta love that freedom. You know that I really hate how Niji fucks up and now Holo is tarred with the same brush? Get your fucking shit together you're making us all look bad and giving these parasites a narrative to follow.

“Agencies should allow for talents to experiment, so long as it isn’t hurting anyone,” says the source. “Let people fail and still have that opportunity for growth in the future. More risk-taking and trying to branch out in other ways instead of simply just streaming or following preestablished methods.”
I don't completely disagree with this, but if you just say it without context or nuance it feels like agencies do not experiment whatsoever, and that experimentation has no consequences other than just the abstract concept of "failing". Failing in this industry will mark your image for life, corpos are held to their failures for years after the fact by rabid legions of internet obsessives, and you really ignore the fact that the big two you so seem to despise are the ones who have pushed the industry forward all of these years.

"According to both of the people we interviewed for this story, this is an agreed-upon sentiment — that to prevent further stagnation, this not-so-niche form of content creation needs to reinvent itself and allow more freedom to its talents. Time will tell if larger agencies like Hololive (which reported 50% growth in its 2023 financial report) and Nijisanji will allow their talents to break the mold."
You interview two people, one of whom is clearly unhappy with their position and the other is a nobody, they don't represent the entire community. There are things called "polls" that you can do to gage public opinion. Also funny how big corpos are "stagnating the industry" by not changing but Holo reported a 50% growth, fucking ironic.

This journo has an obvious western bias, and doesn't once account for how massive vtubing is in japan and asia in general. Vtubing in the west has stagnated because it's full of boring, bland vtweeters and twitch nobodies who spend 2k bucks on a model with huge titties and expect to get rich off of that. Niji dropped the ball sure, but that doesn't mean EVERYONE is decaying. Also I get the feeling this guy would love Vshojo (even though they restrained themselves to not mention them) even when vshojo chuubas stolen from other corpos have a proven track record of NOT breaking the mold like they did before and just settling into cushy generic roles, I guess giving people talent freedom doesn't equate with better content.

wow that was such a shit fucking article

thanks for your service nenelove

 

[Zinnaha]

View attachment 51431
Hmm, maybe it's because... idk... CORPOS BEGAN THIS ENTIRE INDUSTRY?!

Not particularly unless you play semantics on what vtubing is considered, it certainly helped push it mainstream lol.

 

[Nenélove]

Not particularly unless you play semantics on what vtubing is considered, it certainly helped push it mainstream lol.

How so? The word "vtuber" was coined by kizuna A.I (or more likely one of the suits who created her), she was the first vtuber, she's a corporate product and she inspired the first wave of vtubers who were in large part also corporate because the tech was so damn expensive. If you want to claim that ami yamato or some rando online who did something that resembles vtubing and was later retroactively included in the term counts as the first then that's just being pedantic.