Banter/Off-topic Thread & Community Stoning Platform

[I Wanna Die]

1. more people

This is the only reason that makes sense for me. If 50 pages a day was the standard for General thread I'd probably be in support of a split but we are a niche of a niche and there just isn't enough activity for it to make sense. We only hit those numbers if there's big drama and even then that usually gets split into a specific thread for that instance anyways.

Sure the new threads are busier but the quality of posting is worse. It's not wholly terrible, it's just more akin to irc and discord than what's standard for TVA in the past. As entertaining as I find the 50% of the Phase thread being sperging about Clara sperging it's not exactly quality content.

The liveposting thread seems redundant now since most seem to livepost in the specific threads as well.

 

[Smelliest007]

Doomerism comes and goes, it was pretty apparent because of the recent holo happenings, but Fes and the posting around it really made people less jaded, i think i understand that, but you can also be less suceptive and just post what makes you happy without giving a fuck imo

This. The doomerism seems to be heavier for others who wade knee deep in it. I've been pretty happy with what I got with Holo and a few ligs. And when the doomerism is high, I just disconnect and come back later.
Perhaps its because I do not watch Pippa or that much Phase to go into the Pippa thread, but is there alot of dooming in there?

 

[electronic elephant]

Because I'd see the joy of random people pushing their oshi, and I'd get to find out about the cool things someone I'd never watch has been doing, and there was a vibe that this celebration of vtubers was all part of the same thing. You lose that feeling when you unravel and compartmentalize it.

I'd never have watched anyone outside of Holo if there'd been split threads back on the Farms. All the other vtubers I watch have come from people shilling them on the Farms or here.

 

[Trap Supremacy]

This. The doomerism seems to be heavier for others who wade knee deep in it. I've been pretty happy with what I got with Holo and a few ligs. And when the doomerism is high, I just disconnect and come back later.
Perhaps its because I do not watch Pippa or that much Phase to go into the Pippa thread, but is there alot of dooming in there?

Not really. Sometimes, but most people are pretty charitable to Pippa when she messes up. Any doomering is more over the company as a whole and that's moved over to the Phase Thread.

 

[Punished Anime Discusser]

Sure the new threads are busier but the quality of posting is worse.

Depends on the thread. Vshojo hasn't broken page 2 yet, the Niji and both indie threads are pretty slow. Holo thread is doing alright, I guess, and you've covered the PC thread.

 

[Superduper Samurai]

Perhaps its because I do not watch Pippa or that much Phase to go into the Pippa thread, but is there alot of dooming in there?

Somewhat, its mostly posting about Hiatuses and individual talent's brainworms, of which there is alot, recently you also have inklings of drama from people politisperging on an obscure alt or brainworming on an alt
i honestly think its more apparent whenever there is low or high morale when its an individual thread, i noticed that thanks to phase and holo, actually, Holo had people fesposting with some kino lives here and there

 

[GOD'S STRONGEST BUILDERBEAR]

The doom is in the eye of the beholder. And its eally hard to submit to it when you see the streamers you watch have numbers go up and artists do fun shit for them and clippers working overtime and normies actually picking up something in support. Alot to doom about Perry but shes strong and has good people supporting her and thats what matters

 

[Superduper Samurai]

I wish we had a "I understand" reaction, cuz I appreciate your point here. I will be fair and say that the happenings with Holo have left me personally quite upset since Dooby has simply not been the same as Ame was, and it feels a lot sadder to force myself to watch Holo stuff since she isn't there anymore. I am glad to hear Fes has made people happier though.

I'll be sticking with Pippa for a while until things get better with Dooby and she can be a bit more consistent. I wanna give Hina a proper shot too since I did like her back when she was streaming but never got to watch her much since she streamed at a bad time for me. Who know what'll happen. All I know is that I can definitely use an injection of optimism myself right now.

i dont wanna say "im sorry you feel that way" but it honestly sounds more like a personal mindset problem thats about people you enjoy watching, which imo shouldnt be entirely used as a way to dictate how a forum could change. Like i said, split threads wouldnt even entirely fix the issue, because it would just make the highs higher and the lows lower, imo

 

[Trap Supremacy]

i dont wanna say "im sorry you feel that way" but it honestly sounds more like a personal mindset problem thats about people you enjoy watching, which imo shouldnt be entirely used as a way to dictate how a forum could change. Like i said, split threads wouldnt even entirely fix the issue, because it would just make the highs higher and the lows lower, imo

Fair enough.

 

[Willemshaven]

I know this is probably a bad time to say this, but I was one of the other people who proposed the thread split, for various reasons. I understand most people hate it, and I totally see the benefits to the general thread - but the longer I've tried to browse here the more people seem more simply jilted and less willing to discuss the streams and content over the drama.

I liked the general thread format for a long time. Back on Kiwi, we all were kinda cramped into our own space and when events went down people would constantly livepost about them, there was a pretty decent appeal to that. But when there were talks about a splinter forum, I already was saying that a proper organized, traditional forum would be much better, simply because it would make the site less intimidating to use and more accessible to a wider audience. I get the fact that the general thread format in the first place is supposed to be a big filter, but I think its unfair the site has become this massive sekrit club where a lot of newbies end up confused over the layout of the site and choose to stop browsing rather than feeling comfortable. Site growth is an unfortunate necessity for it to be upkept.

One of the big reasons I tended to dislike the general thread format, especially lately, is because a lot of the fun has simply been overwritten by people constantly getting jaded over the state of vtubing as a whole. It doesn't help that a handful of people here have effectively written off vtubing entirely and treat the site as a dumping ground cough Xenlar's clique cough over trying to contribute to it being a better, even great place for vtuber discussion.

It also doesn't help that with liveposting moved to its own thread, we don't see endearingly obsessed fans of certain vtubers really properly advertising or even showing their appeal to the rest of the site. It brings the energy and the unity of the site down as a whole.

I will say right now, before I continue: I do not particularly like Proctor. Frankly, he was incredibly stubborn to budge on this idea, and when he actually took it he took it for all the wrong reasons, and has explained them incredibly poorly. He's too autistic to properly explain his reasoning in short, so here's my reasoning, summed up in a small, neat package:

The general thread has stopped being fun. Vtubers are now too much of srs bzns to really discuss jovially in a larger capacity, which is why I see split threads as a good way to reignite some passion in people. Not to encourage tribalism, but to bring people together over the joy of our favorite corps/Vtubers. A perfect example of this, although I know people loathe it, is the Pippa thread - the people that spend time there are more passionate about the girl they watch, more fun to spend time around and banter with, and generally much more enjoyable company because they have a (properly moderated) space for themselves.

We all need a little room to get ourselves out of the pits of sadness and misery.

I completely understand at the end of the day if this seems wrong, or if I'm blatantly incorrect, but the feelings I feel in the general thread are the same ones I feel browing a schizo-filled general thread on /vt/. The split threads and even the Pippa thread give me the same warm feelings other good, fun forums gave me in the past, and we ought to have those feelings here.

I don't agree with all of that but I can understand this perspective.
Thanks for talking about your reasoning.

(It didn't play nice as a saved HTML file. Otherwise I would've changed the profile pictues as well.)

 

[Hff201]

I've been critical of splitting up the threads since it was first proposed in the early days, and I can't say my opinion's been changed much. It feels like a change to prevent hypothetical problems which may or may not occur later down the line rather than a improvement for the forum in its current form, and I'm not a fan of disturbing things that are already working as intended. I realise having a single general thread isn't going to be sustainable forever but we already have a solution for that with the Events threads, as they move conversations that dominate the thread to a more fitting place once the need to do so has already been identified. This system wasn't broken so there was no need to fix it.

With regards to the tone of conversation, all I can say is to be the change you want to see. People post about drama a lot because there is a lot of it to discuss, but I have not seen evidence of a chilling effect on well-written positive posts; the problem is that a lot of people posting specifically to promote a streamer are not very good at doing so. Almost every page of the general thread, for years now, has had multiple posts consisting entirely of "X is live" and a stream embed, which tells me absolutely nothing about what's happening on the stream or why I might want to watch it - which, despite being well-intentioned, causes them to be lost among the more detailed drama or industry analysis posts that actually have some kind of hook to catch people's interest. You are fighting for attention on a page that is already trying to recommend me over ten hours' worth of content. None of us have time to watch it all, so make an effort to advertise what you're posting in a way that will resonate with the right kind of audience for it.

 

[CalciumAnimal]

more people,

Maybe here is the thing though Proctards imaginary wave of new users will totally happen any minute now

I suspect he would have difficulty counting chickens regardless weather they were before or after hatching.

Also i don't get why you guys keep saying dooming. the site is more or less healthy despite the retard in charge.

Though i do find it amusing he hes supposedly trying to combat negativity but all his antics are generating the most negativity.

 

[God's Strongest Dragoon]

>pretend to be Italian for months
>get one-up'd by Niji going full retard war on Doki
>migo every post on the forum
>get one-up'd again because some fag feels moody and manages to convince Proctor to ruin the forum

 

[BlueSharkTV]

>pretend to be Italian for months
>get one-up'd by Niji going full retard war on Doki
>migo every post on the forum
>get one-up'd again because some fag feels moody and manages to convince Proctor to ruin the forum

hey at least we got the Feet Pics arc uninterrupted

 

[Latte'Ninba]

Doomerism comes and goes, it was pretty apparent because of the recent holo happenings, but Fes and the posting around it really made people less jaded, i think i understand that, but you can also be less suceptive and just post what makes you happy without giving a fuck imo

Spoiler: Guess I'm on an

Seriously, look at what a gay joy fest we had in that thread during Fes. Arguably part of why I'm even posting again. Serious mood bringer.
Like people don't HAVE to jump into a random general thread argument. You don't even have to comment how homosexual it and all involved are. Funnily enough, we pretty much added an entire reaction sticker as a way to reply to a post without shitting up the thread with replies to shit nobody wanted to see the next 5 pages... ah jeez. If only I could remember WHICH.. I have a feeling it was quite powerful though for some reason, despite stickers doing literally nothing funtional...

Being a smartass aside though, let me just sort out the part I don't get regarding this logic:
Some people are apparently not getting along and reporting each other over.. dumb shit? Like this isn't exactly clear here, and yet again we, the casual users, are entirely unaware and uninformed of anything that doesn't have a mod edit which is causing a decision to be forced on us.

So the solution to force people to stop their bullshit and get along was to try and totally isolate them from each other to form their own smaller groups and assume that the entire forum was going to be a big friendly hug box and not several split threads that potentially won't ever even interact. This is somehow going to get everyone on the same page and bring up morale at a time when the whole scene is all over the place in general, purely because people are supposed to listen to each other and like each other better by not actually interacting at all.
This is also somehow supposed to counter the actual general happenings that literally nobody here has any control over and stop killing the overall mood on their hobby down in its down period. All without even considering if all it does is stop people from sharing all the various things they like from various people in a thread where anyone and everyone can see something have a giggle or feels moment. Instead it was sectioned it off into spots various people will never even glance at.

And while people are currently going through their downswing of mood from happenings out of their control, it was figured implementing more things that they have no control over and telling them their input will be ignored is going to make them happier. While people are in a majority saying it not only didn't fix anything but has made it all feel worse. Even people who don't mind the splits are noting that a chunk of it feels off in general but as always we need to quadrituple down.

I know this is probably a bad time to say this, but I was one of the other people who proposed the thread split, for various reasons. I understand most people hate it, and I totally see the benefits to the general thread - but the longer I've tried to browse here the more people seem more simply jilted and less willing to discuss the streams and content over the drama.

I liked the general thread format for a long time. Back on Kiwi, we all were kinda cramped into our own space and when events went down people would constantly livepost about them, there was a pretty decent appeal to that. But when there were talks about a splinter forum, I already was saying that a proper organized, traditional forum would be much better, simply because it would make the site less intimidating to use and more accessible to a wider audience. I get the fact that the general thread format in the first place is supposed to be a big filter, but I think its unfair the site has become this massive sekrit club where a lot of newbies end up confused over the layout of the site and choose to stop browsing rather than feeling comfortable. Site growth is an unfortunate necessity for it to be upkept.

One of the big reasons I tended to dislike the general thread format, especially lately, is because a lot of the fun has simply been overwritten by people constantly getting jaded over the state of vtubing as a whole. It doesn't help that a handful of people here have effectively written off vtubing entirely and treat the site as a dumping ground cough Xenlar's clique cough over trying to contribute to it being a better, even great place for vtuber discussion.

It also doesn't help that with liveposting moved to its own thread, we don't see endearingly obsessed fans of certain vtubers really properly advertising or even showing their appeal to the rest of the site. It brings the energy and the unity of the site down as a whole.

I will say right now, before I continue: I do not particularly like Proctor. Frankly, he was incredibly stubborn to budge on this idea, and when he actually took it he took it for all the wrong reasons, and has explained them incredibly poorly. He's too autistic to properly explain his reasoning in short, so here's my reasoning, summed up in a small, neat package:

The general thread has stopped being fun. Vtubers are now too much of srs bzns to really discuss jovially in a larger capacity, which is why I see split threads as a good way to reignite some passion in people. Not to encourage tribalism, but to bring people together over the joy of our favorite corps/Vtubers. A perfect example of this, although I know people loathe it, is the Pippa thread - the people that spend time there are more passionate about the girl they watch, more fun to spend time around and banter with, and generally much more enjoyable company because they have a (properly moderated) space for themselves.

We all need a little room to get ourselves out of the pits of sadness and misery.

I completely understand at the end of the day if this seems wrong, or if I'm blatantly incorrect, but the feelings I feel in the general thread are the same ones I feel browing a schizo-filled general thread on /vt/. The split threads and even the Pippa thread give me the same warm feelings other good, fun forums gave me in the past, and we ought to have those feelings here.

Spoiler: autism OD day

Not going to hassle anyone over the thought process of it, at least someone has actively made an attempt to explain their thoughts on it. But even in the way this is said it's like yeah, we're having an actual chat about it. This is a huge part of what people want in the first place instead of all the condescending nonsense we keep getting.
You mention the live thread splitting off made it kind of weird too because you felt like a lot of enthusiam fell off afterward, but I mean doesn't that sort of already imply that split threads aren't the answer then?
Frankly based on what you said, this mostly just becomes easier to make a general drama shitshow thread and keep it out of the general. Which I feel like people used to actually kind of do with the twitter thread and making news ones and whatnot. At least up until it became some of the standard news export of the guy in charge. Now it's all headline banners and hard focused because he can be involved. Most shit worked fine on a basic level for ages. I think part of the problem for WHY it's so cereal biziness is the guy in charge actively shits on a majority of the scene happily, and shits on people who disagree with him on said parts of it.

When the Clara thread was full on swinging, someone specific was in there talking about how nobody should support her cause she hates them. Basically everyone there said yeah they know, nobody is convinced she would like them in person if they ever met, but they still felt she was talented or whatever and offered content they wanted. They were fine with her "hating them" and would continue watching a free stream because not everything has to be a battlefield.
Said person then basically continued on an Anita Sarkeesian rant about how everything was awful and you would be an idiot to continue giving someone your time, and it was a shame those people were just too damn stupid to understand that. It wasn't that any of those people were functioning adults making a concious choice no. It was that they didn't know any better. Whether anybody can even begin to guess who that was is up the air!

But this type of shit is also a large factor of the change in the forum as much as the overall issues of stuff happening in the scene. Especially with it all around the same time within a year or so. It definitely craps on a mood, but I don't think this split was a step towards trying to fix it at all and telling everyone to shut up no discussion will be had certainly doesn't help either.

I get the wished for intent, but I personally just don't see it working out. Even by the admittance of people pushing splits, one thread worked fine for ages until fairly recently. Most of the shit that happens isn't in our control, you can't do anything about what some dumbass corpos do, random indie drama, or graduations etc. Unfortunately people are also determined to not work on the things that could be in our control either.

>pretend to be Italian for months
>get one-up'd by Niji going full retard war on Doki
>migo every post on the forum
>get one-up'd again because some fag feels moody and manages to convince Proctor to ruin the forum

One day you'll get your well deserved moment. SURELY you can't keep catching all the strays every time

 

[CalciumAnimal]

Being a smartass aside though, let me just sort out the part I don't get regarding this logic:
Some people are apparently not getting along and reporting each other over.. dumb shit? Like this isn't exactly clear here, and yet again we, the casual users, are entirely unaware and uninformed of anything that doesn't have a mod edit which is causing a decision to be forced on us.

I am 90% sure these people are fictional as i have never seen them.

 

[Smelliest007]

I am 90% sure these people are fictional as i have never seen them.

Seriously, who the fuck are these people reporting each other? Is it so hard to walk away or are people roleplaying Kyo/Quinn?

 

[The Proctor]

At least up until it became some of the standard news export of the guy in charge. Now it's all headline banners and hard focused because he can be involved. Most shit worked fine on a basic level for ages. I think part of the problem for WHY it's so cereal biziness is the guy in charge actively shits on a majority of the scene happily, and shits on people who disagree with him on said parts of it.

If this was the impression you have gotten, then I apologize. I'm aware that I can be a bit of a doomer on the vtubing scene and it is something I have tried to reign in during the last few months. As for the banner announcements, they are open to suggestions at any time. Again; I apologize if it appears as if I only pick the things that interest me, specifically. I have no issue highlighting things other people would like to see, and part of the reason for creating separate, dedicated announcement banners [technically widgets] for each new thread was to allow people more agency in recommending things relevant to them.

Sometimes I miss stuff that's worthy of being in the banner. I generally don't follow large corporate events, so I am not as on the ball with those as compared to indie events. Users are free to @ me or any other staff member if they feel an event is worth featuring on the banner. I'd honestly love to open up the ability to add to banners to multiple people, but the problem is that by default you need administrative powers and those fields can contain HTML and various other code that have a very high potential for abuse if not kept in trustworthy hands. Therefore, it's a wortharound system that relies primarily on users noticing and requesting things be highlighted manually.

 

[GOD'S STRONGEST BUILDERBEAR]

No you dont understand we MUST kill a white woman for not killing every tranny she meets!

 

[Thomas Talus]

This is a much better place when people are, despite their jaded, cynical natures, being sincerely fond of these silly, somewhat retarded anime women than it is when people are openly lusting for destruction.