Banter/Off-topic Thread & Community Stoning Platform

[MerryKusa]

I won't criticize you much for having certain aspirations for TVA to be something in the vtuber sphere because they are your forums, and I am just a user here. I don't bear any responsibilities regarding any of that. That being said, and I'm only speaking for myself, though I'm sure many others probably feel the same way, but I honestly don't really care about this place having a particular perception among vtubers. I don't care if this place is known as being Kiwi Farms-adjacent. Of course, I'd prefer TVA not having a negative perception amongst vtubers, but that's on them to decide, not on us to act in a particular way. I have no delusions that most vtubers I like probably wouldn't like me based on how I post here, and I'm okay with that because I'm just a person who likes watching entertaining vtubers, talking about them, and shitposting for fun. I have no ill-will for most vtubers, and I hope most of them are happy and successful in what they do, and I have stated this probably just as much as I have shitposted and made crass comments and jokes. If that latter part of my presence here is enough for anyone to see me as a bad person, then so be it.

I don't say any of this to try and convince you away from whatever your plans are for TVA. I am sorry to hear that running TVA has been this stressful and miserable for you. I say much of this because I am confident in saying that most people here aren't trying to do things just to spite you outside of making jokes like we do with everyone here. Most of us aren't out here trying to intentionally ruin whatever it is that you want to do with TVA. But I think I can safely say that most of us don't care for TVA to be anything more than a place for fans to discuss vtubers and shitpost, which seems to clash with what you seem to want TVA to become.

I want to quote this to really bing in that I agree with this stance.
I am here because TVA is overall a good place to discuss, shill and shitpost. Ofc I know that my oshi would be unhappy that I leak members stuff and generally call her retarded when she's being retarded. But I am here to talk ABOUT her, not WITH her, I don't want her to be my friend.


@The Proctor I am thankful how you run this site (for the most time), because I get to benefit from this space without putting in work (except contributing posts I guess).
I, and probably a lot of other forum users as well, don't hate you just because you are you and because you are the head janny.

Motherfucker they don't hate you whatever you do, they hate you because of what you do and how you do it. Oftentimes they don't even hate you, just the things you're doing.

The dislike doesn't spill over to the other Mods nearly as much, does it? (or if it does, I am unaware)
Maybe ask yourself why that is?

But because I am feeling it rn, let me spell it out for you, why I (currently) hold literally any of the other jannies, in higher regard than you:

I think you don't fit in with the culture and posting style of your own forum anymore.
Idk (probably tho) if It's because you spend too much time in that echochamber of a discord (or soon to be echo chamber if Mr. Alex is allowed to mod and ban based on vibes despite being away from the community 95% of the time) but too often, I see you derail a thread with politsperging (tbf, you are not the only one who does that, but it is worse when you do it because YOU ARE the Headjanny). You have to live with that, because whatever you do, it will recieve more scutiny because you do it from a position of power.
Or you post half-informed takes, and you have to get corrected by others. That too, by itself, isn't bad bad (I understand that it's impossible to keep up) but you are someone in a position of power and privileged to additional information, so some people come to expect you to be informed or have accurate knowledge. It's perfectly fine if you don't, just give a small heads-up like "I might be talking out of my ass here, none of my contacts have talked to be about this issue", because it's the worst when people (I am talking broadly on purpose here) are building rrats and assumptions based of out-dated, inaccurate or plain wrong information. Because yes, speculating and making up "what-ifs", without the noise from /vt/ is also one of the fun parts of this forum. At the very least, it's interesting, maybe even informative and constructive. But it all falls apart when the base is inaccuracies. So don't get caught posting falsehoods, it is at best embarrassing.

And sometimes you just come across as plain cringe. Saying you want to fight someone to prove how manly you are? This isn't even about you as a janny or so, anyone saying shit like that deserves a Nolan Sticker. Just stop being so weird. Be racist towards Filipinos instead, that's a much better look. If you get 10+ Crushs on a post, it doesn't say anything about you as a person, but certainly about that very post. If you feel like they are unwarranted, dunno, consult with the other mods for a 2nd opinion instead of assuming they are all there because we all hate you.

But by far the worst behaviour you have is how you handle Discord-faggotry that swaps over to the forum. You suddenly seem bitchy, whiny and desperate to get a one-up over the guy who wronged you on Discord. Whatever the reason may be, it always makes you look like a pathetic looser. If you really want to, keep the discord, but I beg you, do not bring Discord drama here and then also expect a pat on the back. It just ain't happening and if you think it will, well you just don't know your own users.

Go on a sabbatical Jannyman and do it like @BASADO, migo all you want but try to stay out of a discussion for a month. I would bet your image would improve tremendously. Or in other words: LURK MOAR (and stay off that damn discord).
Moderation of any space is the best when the moderation is almost invisible, and sadly you Proctor, are far too visible. You don't need to be silent forever, I would even welcome it if you shitpost with other members (as long as it's not cringe, see above). But you are visible, and sadly for all the wrong reasons.

But also, to go out with a shimmer of hope: We also told you again and again that the way you vaguepost or post in a way that could be misread as alluding to exclusive information (despite you just making your own assumptions) and for that, I do think you got better at that front. So somewhere, improvement is still possible within you.

---

PS, because this is kinda beside the point, but I want to mention it while I'm at it:

There should be NO POLITSPERGING rule. Too quickly, too often, people make a post that is 100% their own political opinion on a topic and without even mentioning a vtuber. Fuck off with that, I like Vtubing BECAUSE it's very very anti-politics, almost always. And I don't want the space that I use to discuss said anti-political Hobby to be full of people posting their opinions. No politics, in neither direction. Basta Finito!

Sure, discuss Clara or Mana sperging on twitter, because that is related to a Vtuber. But those threads/discussions often and quickly derail and are just about how California or the Democrats or the 19th amendments are bad (inb4 I only say this because its politics I don't agree with → those are just the topics I personally have seen being discussed here, I dont see any people shitting up threads with leftist opinions). I will not fight anyone on their political beliefs, because with politics I hold it like with the hornyposting: Keep it in your pants.
Jerk to whatever; I don't wanna know and believe whatever politics I don't wanna know either.

This is a Vtuber Forum and it should remain one.

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This TLDR is brought to you by ChatGPT:

The writer criticizes a moderator ("Proctor") for being out of touch with the forum's culture, overly visible in a negative way, and handling Discord-related drama poorly. They suggest the moderator should take a break, engage less visibly, and avoid being overly political or posting inaccurate takes. Improvement in some areas is acknowledged, but a stricter "no politics" rule for the forum is proposed to maintain its focus on Vtubers.

 

[CalciumAnimal]

More because of Proctor drama, but the discord server has prompted a lot of it despite the warnings people had before it was made and the continual proof that it does little but create drama.


The Kirsche meltdown probably takes the cake. Not because you could argue it was the biggest or most explosive disagreement we've had here - and I've certainly had it out with Proctor across the forum's history at times - but because the snap banning of Takodachi and those like Rrat who questioned it, followed by (now familiar) condescension when the outcry hit, changed the culture and inserted a note of bitterness and changed expectations into the community that wasn't there before.
If you haven't been around since the beginning, it's hard to explain the difference, but interactions here were almost universally positive. There were no hard feelings, people were really engaged in posting about the chuubas they liked, and an air of general banter. Proctor could expect positive reception pretty much no matter what he posted spirits were so high with the communities founding in the wake of the Homelands drama. God forgive me for admitting this, but I actually considered volunteering as a mod the first time Proctor asked for help just because I liked this place so much, but decided against it because my schedule was too similar to Proctor's and I felt it would be redundant.
Repeat this cycle a bunch of times and now half the time Proctor gets mass migos not because of anything in particular he's saying, but just because he's the one who's saying it and people are sick of it. That should be a major red flag that your attitude is out of line. But he keeps doing it, chipping away at perception of him each time. In the wake of that first drama I got the impression Proctor was going to be more introspective and discuss with the other mods before taking action like this, what the hell happened there? Have they been left with the actual forum community while he spirals further off into private discord asskissing? Because shit like this is genuinely doing more to damage the reputation of TVA and our community than any of the people Proctor has accused of doing so in his dramaposts. Or, like I mentioned back then, and Nene has repeated now:

ok but that's because none of us knew each other now we do.

it was easy to be positive because wee didn't know jamby was half the sites users we did not know proctor was retarded we didn't know Nene was a secret anti.

the site is the same as it ever was and people getting scared off because its not all roses is about as retarded as Nolan is

Proctor probably should be exploded from his admin role tho (when it comes to moderation anyway) nothing against the dude but moderation is not his strong suit

 

[Trap Supremacy]

In the wake of that first drama I got the impression Proctor was going to be more introspective and discuss with the other mods before taking action like this, what the hell happened there? Have they been left with the actual forum community while he spirals further off into private discord asskissing? Because shit like this is genuinely doing more to damage the reputation of TVA and our community than any of the people Proctor has accused of doing so in his dramaposts.

Personal opinion: Proctor has been too heavily involving himself in vtubers and the community surrounding them, trying to be an e-celeb, when he'd be better served sticking to running the forum instead of using as it an ideological platform to try and mold to his liking. I think if he really threw aside his ego and let the forum be what it is, and stop trying to be diet-Null, this forum would be a far better place.

 

[Thomas Talus]

Personal opinion: Proctor has been too heavily involving himself in vtubers and the community surrounding them, trying to be an e-celeb, when he'd be better served sticking to running the forum instead of using as it an ideological platform to try and mold to his liking. I think if he really threw aside his ego and let the forum be what it is, and stop trying to be diet-Null, this forum would be a far better place.

Remember, forum owners trying to be celebrities ends in getting beaten by Uwe Boll, Goldbelly pies, vermintide taking a dump on your table, and ultimately a shotgun.

 

[Brosnan Pierce Brosnan]

I'm with Kusa for the most part.

I personally have no stakes in interacting with Vtubers but talking about them here is why I pretty much migrated here from the homeland after it's numerous downtimes. And to be fair as it's probably clear from anyone who has interacted with me in that discord I don't really even care about Vtubers anymore just the drama and gossip. So schmoozing to get info and not share it does what exactly? Sweet we get a vaguepost and a freakout. The Vtubers are the show, if Proctor wanted to be the show he should have streamed more. Like I'm pretty sure back in 2023 I could have schmoozed my way into vagueposts as well but I don't know these people personally I don't give a shit.

Tldr what even be the point

 

[RestlessRain]

Keeping this short: @The Proctor, you have two roles on this forum and I think you are mixing up the perception of one of those roles for the perception of the other.

Proctor, as forum admin - overall, you do a good job, and I don't think we thank you enough for this. Genuinely, thank you, Proctor.

Proctor, as forum poster - you're like other vtubers I like, you occasionally have some retarded opinions, but I like you anyway.

I wouldn't mix up how you're perceived in one role as how you're perceived in the other. I also think very few, if any people on here actually hate you, and I think you may have accidentally gotten that impression somewhere along the line. I hope this post does a little to correct that.

 

[CalciumAnimal]

just chiming in. I don't hate you proctor you are surrounded with people here who are primed to criticize you and we do but we dont actually hate you.

you are a femboi tho.

 

[The Proctor]

snip

I'm going to preface this by saying that I think this is a very good post overall, spoken sincerely and from the heart. It contains a lot of information I will consider carefully. However, while I appreciate it and do agree with most of the points made, I'm going to home in on this bit.

There should be NO POLITSPERGING rule. Too quickly, too often, people make a post that is 100% their own political opinion on a topic and without even mentioning a vtuber. Fuck off with that, I like Vtubing BECAUSE it's very very anti-politics, almost always. And I don't want the space that I use to discuss said anti-political Hobby to be full of people posting their opinions. No politics, in neither direction. Basta Finito!

I have a different perspective on this because in my experience vtubers are generally young, left-leaning women. The industry as a whole is inclined towards the progressive. Also, from the Taiwan Incident onwards, vtubing has been contaminated by political thinking. What you might not be factoring in is the fact that most of the (surface level) politics are of the unmentioned type.

For example, after the Taiwan Incident, how many vtubers with any Chinese audience members ever mentioned Taiwan again? Maybe some did, it's not like I have an encyclopaedic list of them. However, I think it's a reasonable statement to make that fewer mentioned Taiwan because of the political fallout it would result in than might otherwise have done so had it not been such a hot-button issue for the Chinese.

As a result, something as simple as mentioning what country your viewers were from became a charged political topic many vtubers likely thought twice about engaging with. Now expand that outwards a little. How many other things could that same pattern influence? Look at Pikamee not playing Hogwarts Legacy due to trans backlash. How many other streamers never played it due to witnessing that backlash? That's political influence, just not of the mentioned type.

I think some people make the mistake of thinking that politics in vtubing is all about the trans flag or declaring you want Trump shot dead. I think it's often subtle and exclusionary, not overt and obvious. But it's still very much there. Just a few hours ago Mozumi Pichi was streaming with a Southern accent as part of her stream gimmick. That was a cute stream, and it was fun. But even then, she shied away from certain parts of Southern culture and stereotypes because she didn't want to risk earning somebody's ire - because she knows that it can negatively influence things like her future collaboration prospects, among other things.

Here, actually, thinking about this issue reminded me of a very good, easily digestible and culturally relevant example of this problem created by MandaloreGaming of all people. I'm going to link it with a timestamp because embeds don't work with those. It's a roughly three-minute long segment and you'll know where it ends. After you've watched it, all I want you to do is consider, for five minutes at most, how this could be relevant to vtubing and whether it affects you. If you don't think it does, then have fun watching your oshi. If you feel differently, maybe look into this stuff a bit more. That's all I ask.

 

[RestlessRain]

Snip

I'm going to say Proctor is right about not limiting politisperging posts, but for a very different reason than he gives - I don't like the idea of post topics being off-limits here, even if that topic limitation is well-intentioned. If someone is politisperging without talking vtubers on a thread, I think we should instead encourage people to report the post and have said post shunted to "General Banter" instead.

 

[Superduper Samurai]

I'm going to preface this by saying that I think this is a very good post overall, spoken sincerely and from the heart. It contains a lot of information I will consider carefully. However, while I appreciate it and do agree with most of the points made, I'm going to home in on this bit.



I have a different perspective on this because in my experience vtubers are generally young, left-leaning women. The industry as a whole is inclined towards the progressive. Also, from the Taiwan Incident onwards, vtubing has been contaminated by political thinking. What you might not be factoring in is the fact that most of the (surface level) politics are of the unmentioned type.

For example, after the Taiwan Incident, how many vtubers with any Chinese audience members ever mentioned Taiwan again? Maybe some did, it's not like I have an encyclopaedic list of them. However, I think it's a reasonable statement to make that fewer mentioned Taiwan because of the political fallout it would result in than might otherwise have done so had it not been such a hot-button issue for the Chinese.

As a result, something as simple as mentioning what country your viewers were from became a charged political topic many vtubers likely thought twice about engaging with. Now expand that outwards a little. How many other things could that same pattern influence? Look at Pikamee not playing Hogwarts Legacy due to trans backlash. How many other streamers never played it due to witnessing that backlash? That's political influence, just not of the mentioned type.

I think some people make the mistake of thinking that politics in vtubing is all about the trans flag or declaring you want Trump shot dead. I think it's often subtle and exclusionary, not overt and obvious. But it's still very much there. Just a few hours ago Mozumi Pichi was streaming with a Southern accent as part of her stream gimmick. That was a cute stream, and it was fun. But even then, she shied away from certain parts of Southern culture and stereotypes because she didn't want to risk earning somebody's ire - because she knows that it can negatively influence things like her future collaboration prospects, among other things.

Here, actually, thinking about this issue reminded me of a very good, easily digestible and culturally relevant example of this problem created by MandaloreGaming of all people. I'm going to link it with a timestamp because embeds don't work with those. It's a roughly three-minute long segment and you'll know where it ends. After you've watched it, all I want you to do is consider, for five minutes at most, how this could be relevant to vtubing and whether it affects you. If you don't think it does, then have fun watching your oshi. If you feel differently, maybe look into this stuff a bit more. That's all I ask.

lots of people have been browbeaten into accepting the "everything is political" shit and its always annoying no matter who spews it.
Almost everyone will know that there is a piece of our social or overall political opinions woven into even innocent looking aspects of our public personas, or in this and many cases, our performances, as you said.

However, people will most of the time will be aware of this, and what some dont always do or want to be is being preached at about political topics, which is why people say XYZ medium is apolitical or they want it to be, you cant really escape the connotations or subtexts, Kiara being an open fucking flaming lesbian could be interpreted as some stunning and brave statement about gay rights, but she doesnt go on a retarded tirade about how you should bake the fucking gay cake.


This condescending "huur durr you dont always know what you're consooming" is gay and retarded, it was been one of the most retarded things you keep doing and you're not as smart as you want to believe

 

[PassiveUnaggressive]

So many words and pages that could be summed up with TVA Discord is a mistake I'm not reading all that I'm happy I missed most of it watching vtubers and playing games, a better waste of time

 

[Takodachi]

It totally wasn't about Proctor being assmad that @Takodachi called Kirsche fat and her being a overly-sensitive retard after joining an inherently hostile environment, guys! Believe me!

 

[Smelliest007]

lots of people have been browbeaten into accepting the "everything is political" shit and its always annoying no matter who spews it.
Almost everyone will know that there is a piece of our social or overall political opinions woven into even innocent looking aspects of our public personas, as you said.

However, people will most of the time will be aware of this, and what some dont always do or want to be is being preached at about political topics, which is why people say XYZ medium is apolitical or they want it to be, you cant really escape the connotations or subtexts, Kiara being an open fucking flaming lesbian could be interpreted as some stunning and brave statement about gay rights, but she doesnt go on a retarded tirade about how you should bake the fucking gay cake.


This condescending "huur durr you dont always know what you're consooming" is gay and retarded, it was been one of the most retarded things you keep doing and you're not as smart as you want to believe

Thank you for this, I needed this spelled out. Gonna use it for this fucking retard in my friend group who does the similar bit of "ackshully if you dig deep down on the game; this shit is woke"/politics are gay but I won't stop talking about it without prompting.

 

[NeneHATE]

lots of people have been browbeaten into accepting the "everything is political" shit and its always annoying no matter who spews it.

That argument only gets used by people who are obsessed with politics, I have never seen it used in good faith. It's an argument almost always followed up with intentions of censoring or classifying art and people's opinions because they are political and just happen to fall into the WRONG side of politics, or using them to vindicate your own drivel because they fall into the RIGHT side of politics.

It's a tool for authoritarians and bookburners of both sides of the idiot spectrum.

If I have politics they are:

• Don't tell me what to fucking do
• Don't tell me what to fucking think
• Don't try to manipulate, gaslight or control me
• Don't act like you're superior

That's it, same with religion

 

[GOD'S STRONGEST BUILDERBEAR]

didnt we have the same discussion like 4 times before?

 

[Kourai]

I'm going to say Proctor is right about not limiting politisperging posts, but for a very different reason than he gives - I don't like the idea of post topics being off-limits here, even if that topic limitation is well-intentioned. If someone is politisperging without talking vtubers on a thread, I think we should instead encourage people to report the post and have said post shunted to "General Banter" instead.

Underlined is a common misconception about the original purpose of the Banter thread.

From the OP:

This does not mean you can politisperg or use this thread as your personal sympathy mine.

I don't regularly read the Banter thread, so maybe it has shifted. But even the explicitly political Election Spergery 2024 Containment Thread had this rule:

It's Election Night in the US. I am not a US citizen, so I do not particularly care about US politics. What I do care about it laughing at people who both do care, and are also very stupid.

This is not a politics thread. I don't want any sperging about who to vote for or any nonsense like that.

As for the reason - you can argue the demerits of limiting topics in principle, but look at how much KF complains about A&H.

And to Proctor, trying to create carve-outs for a previously consistent stance which most users appreciated:

I think you don't fit in with the culture and posting style of your own forum anymore.

Consider that whole post again.

 

[God's Strongest Dragoon]

didnt we have the same discussion like 4 times before?

Yes, and the core point of "delete the discord" keeps getting ignored. This will keep happening as long as the discord remains.

 

[The Proctor]

However, people will most of the time will be aware of this, and what some dont always do or want to be is being preached at about political topics, which is why people say XYZ medium is apolitical or they want it to be, you cant really escape the connotations or subtexts, Kiara being an open fucking flaming lesbian could be interpreted as some stunning and brave statement about gay rights, but she doesnt go on a retarded tirade about how you should bake the fucking gay cake.

Is a frog whose water is brought to the boil over an hour any less cooked than a frog whose water is brought to the boil in a minute?

 

[GOD'S STRONGEST BUILDERBEAR]

Yes, and the core point of "delete the discord" keeps getting ignored. This will keep happening as long as the discord remains.

Can you give me a dollar for every time this happens from now on? I want to move to dubai one day

 

[The Proctor]

Yes, and the core point of "delete the discord" keeps getting ignored. This will keep happening as long as the discord remains.

This had nothing in particular to do with the Discord though. It started on the forum, then I specifically brought it to the Discord to keep it out of the forum, because I kept being re-engaged in the thread itself. I don't get how deleting the Discord would've done anything besides ensure this happened on the forum instead. Would you have preferred that?