So apparently its a podcast made up of 2 journalists. Jesse Singal and Katie Herzog. I dont know much about them but the name Jessee Signal rings a bell (and im terrible with names so thats probably a bad thing). From the 14 minute preview they are going over what Vtubers are, and what ASMR is and the preview cuts off at the mention of V-Allure's audition post back from April 1.
Which honestly im somewhat surprised given how almost everyone who has talked about this whole issue is retarded and seems to think that this all started with the Shiloh girl calling some kid a Yamanba and Kirsche defending it (which was not even the article that Ana wrote).
Something to note. Apparently Singal knows Ana because they briefly worked for the DailyDot and it seems Singal does not like Ana at all. Another interesting thing to note is that looking at Katie Herzog online and one of the first things that pops up is some article of someone in the alphabet soup community calling her a transphobe or some shit so I am willing to bet that this might be in favor of Kirsche and not the other way around but journos gonna journo so I can't really say.
Jesse Singal talking about this clusterfuck, now that is funny. I have followed this guy on Twitter from before 2020 and the Vtuber explosion with the appearance of Hololive Myth.
Singal is a liberal journo, but one of the ones that is still a 90s liberal, ergo for progressives he is a Nazi even though he dislikes Trump.
Ana Valens and a lot of trans activist hate him since 2018 because he published an article in The Atlantic called When Children Say They’re Trans where he was one of the first one in the mainstream pointing out that just giving hormones to kids just because they say they are the opposite gender they were born in is not a fix all solutions. Also put on the mainstream the existence of people that detransition, meaning not everyone that claims to be trans is actually trans.
And yes, one of its critics has always been Valens so it makes sense he would be interested in this story.
Singal is in fact extremely critic of trans activism, not trans people but the activists and how they carry themselves, and also of people like Nyara who keep pushing from to just give children hormones, no questions asked.
GamerSupps should have a long list of emails and DMs with those. What i would like to see is any other content creator not scared to air out if they have gotten DMs from people brigading them to drop GSS. I don't think Ana is retarded enough to have done this personally but I wouldn't put it past them to either make alts to do this with or have some of their lackeys to it for him.
I know there are some but we probably wont have any confirmation of it.
0:45:00 - Singal laughs at the reply Ana made to my post
Where basically I'm le anti-trans bigot paints Ana as a sexual predator (if the shoe fits) and a pedophile (if the shoe fits) and discredits his writing by character assassination (funny how character assassination only goes one way with Ana) to which Ana suspects me having sexual fantasies about ana as Trans.
I keep replaying the first 30 seconds trying to make sense of it. British Hindu freedom fighter? What the fuck?
Edit: Okay, after that he becomes somewhat more coherent, but he doesn't really have anything new to say. Immigrants always good, capitalists always bad, YTs always nazis. Right, got it.
I keep replaying the first 30 seconds trying to make sense of it. British Hindu freedom fighter? What the fuck?
Edit: Okay, after that he becomes somewhat more coherent, but he doesn't really have anything new to say. Immigrants always good, capitalists always bad, YTs always nazis. Right, got it.
Saar, we were the true heroes of WW2. Bharati Aryan Brahmins defeated the Dalit Nazis. Saar, if you wish to redeem your thanks, pls pop down to your local Greggs and say thank you to your Indian manager.
0.:14:50 - Singal somewhat agrees with Ana that he sees no reason for trans to be included.
0:15:05 - Katie clarifies what V-Allure mentioned that you have to sound female from that one podcast.
0:16:10 - Singal doesnt see the problem.
0:17:10 - Katie brings up the lesbian ban
0:17:45 - Singal explains what a loli is (kinda, somewhat, doesnt really go much into detail over it)
0:18:00 - Katie mentions that Ana is setting up her first article as a hit piece of sorts.
0:18:50 - 2nd article (Kirsche article) gets mentioned. Katie mentions that this is where shit starts to go crazy
0:19:00 - Explanation of what Gamersupps is.
0:19:45 - Going over the Article and Ana highlighting that apparently Gamersupps is in hot water thanks to a content creator (basically reading the article)
0:20:19 - Singal goisn autism mode over when Katie reads "begs the question" in the article. It should be "raises the question"
0:20:00 - "Ana valens is introducing us to an anime fox girl who none of us has heard of and already asking why isnt she getting fired. This is truly some 2018 stuff" - Singal
0:20:55 - Katie asks Singal if he wants to see Kirsche's avatar. Dude probably was expecting some Foxgirl with a giant dick or something but is pleasantly surprised that its just some random fox girl.
0:21:25 - They describe the character. Ends up with "huge tits as well".
0:21:53 - Katie goes over the content Kirsche does and then mentions the line from the article that quotes Kirsche saying that trans women advocating for trans rights are agp's with graphic murder fantasies. She then proceeds to laugh and say its funny because Ana seems to write graphic violent fantasies. Context: they had apparently played Ana's Macaroni Pussy audio clip on one of their previous episodes.
0:22:00 - They briefly explain that Asmongold is a huge streamer because the article mentions Kirsche liking Asmongold
0:23:05 - Singal comments that Ana is a genius because they got a job to basically write shit about their enemies online.
0:23:30 - Katie - "Now i don't trust Ana Valens. Not just because she masturbates to eating people but because she has a history of...." gets interrupted by Singal making a joke
0:23:55 - They go into detail about Ana and how he is related to Singal. Ana doesnt come off as a good or thoughtful journalist.
Apparently Ana wrote something to possibly imply that Singal is transphobic
0:24:38 - They mention that Kirsche commented on Ana's first V-Allure article and they play a clip of Kirsche talking about what Woman/Female is and how activists had pushed to change the meaning of one and now they are pushing to change the meaning of both.
0:25:55 - Singal asks when this audio happened and Katie clarifies that it came shortly after the V-Allure hit piece. Singal asks if Ana mentions this in the Kirsche hit piece and Katie says that no, its not mentioned.
0:26:15 - Singal mentions that Kirsche is a fairly small content creators and it seems Ana is using his position at Vice to attack Kirsche. Katie agrees that it seems like Ana is just using his position to go after Kirsche.
0:26:30 - Katie mentions that on the 2nd hit piece the "so called controversy" is Twitter and Reddit posts.
0:26:45 - NBinted mentioned as a woke vtuber fan trying to get Kirsche cancelled for months. Katie mentions that Ana's main "source" is NBinted's posts. Katie says they will talk about Bint in a bit.
0:26:59 - Singal says that this is a very common thing with some journalists that they basically create a problem so that they can write about it.
0:27:15 - Katie is criticizing this from a journalist point of view calling it "chatter" and that you can't just have anonymous Redditors hating on anonymous Vtuber there isn't a story here. But by naming Gamersupps and making it about a boycott they are making it a story. So by doing this Ana is elevating the "chatter" into a cancelation story. Calls it "hostage journalism" by writing a story and then using it to force a company to respond.
0:27:45 - Singal goes over it for a bit and Katie mentioned that this was extremely common a few years ago but then Elon bought Twitter and the people that caused these problems (im assuming she is talking about the journalists that did this) moved to BlueSky to their own little echo chamber of crazy.
0:28:10 - Singal asks Katie if its accurate to call Kirsche alt-Right. Katie says no that Richard Spencer and Nick Fuentes are alt-right.
0:28:15 - Katie describes Kirsche as edgy and anti-woke. It seems Katie asked Kirsche about her political leanings (not sure if on Twitter) and goes over she voting for trump back in 2016 and being a bit more right than left. Mentioned that Kirsche is an outlier in Vtubing as she can often comment on politics which is often a no-no.
0:29:40 - They talk about Kirsche getting kicked from Offkai panel and are reading the pronoun jokes.
0:30:30 - They go over some of Kirsche's political points and call her mainstream conservative and not alt-right. Mentions that Ana ignored the context in many of Kirsche's posts as to paint her in a bad light.
0:31:00 - Singal mentions that Ana does this often. Katie proceeds to go over some examples of quotes taken out of context.
0:32:45 - Singal asks about he "great replacement theory"
0:33:20 - Katie reads the first long tweet Kirsche made replying to Ana's allegations. Singal asks if she believes that Kirsche is being truthful in what she says. Katie says that this is where it gets complicated.
0:33:26 - Katie goes to mention this all comes from some cartoon fucker named NBinted which she mentioned before. Its this guy who has been trying to get Kirsche deplatformed for months and he clips her problematic or offensive moments on stream and reposts them on Twitter.
0:35:10 - Kirsche *hostile takeover clip gets played about the mosque in Ireland*
0:35:50 - Katie asked Kirsche directly and Kirsche says that she doesnt think its the jews doing this but that its politicians being morally bankrupt and in line with corporations to pushing for this for cheap labor issues and mentioned Keir Starmer saying it.
0:36:00 - Singal asks if its true that Keir said this. Katie says that he left the part about mosques out but he did say this.
0:37:15 - Singal somewhat agrees but thinks the way Kirsche frames it is more conspiratorial
0:38:00 - Singal asked about what is the general consensus on the Ana Valens hit piece. Katie says that she went to Reddit to try to see (bruh wtf Reddit of all places) and says the reaction was mixed because Kirsche has a bunch of fans that support her she but a good chunk of people on Reddit thinks she is an evil bigot. Apparently they asked "Jessica The 80's Baby" (no fucking clue who that is) and they explained that you cant really generalize when it comes to vtube politically because its like the anime community where on one side you have woke teenage girls and trans and on the other you have guys that think Japan is based because its racist and in the middle there are people that dont want politics in Vtubing so the reaction is mixed. Bluesky of course was Team Valens. Twitter was team Kirsche.
0:38:47 - Third hit piece mentioned "Elephant in the Room"
0:39:10 - Singal reads the first part of the article talking about Rin Penrose and comments that Ana's attempt to turn this into some sort of a boycott is working.
0:39:54 - Singal menttions the quote "I suspect her departure will embolden others..." as Ana participating in something while pretending to report on it with any sort of objectivity.
0:40:18 - Katie mentions the replies to Rin's Tweet are mixed and its all basically just anonymous people with cartoon avatars. Not sure why this is such a problem to Katie.
0:40:23 - "So Ana sources quotes from 4chan. [/sarcastic] Im really surprised those are hateful."
0:40:30 - Ana mentions that he has gotten hate and implies that its now about Ana. "It has always been about Ana" - Singal
0:41:04 - *TVA mentioned* "someone called Ana a Tr00n that shoved a dildo up their ass..."
0:43:35 - They have spent the last 2 minutes talking about the situation or if you can shove said toy up your ass. Katie thinks its possible Just in case Katie or Singal ever read this, there is evidence that Ana was playing with this up her ass. Ana got so much hate over this article from other notable trans content creators that they deleted a bunch of shit and tried to change the narrative. There is evidence of Ana making a post about uploading a video on an adult website while "playing Fall Guys" with the vibrator. Kirsche mentions it in one of her streams, might need to ask one of her mods for the timestamp. i distinctly remember back in 2020 this happening.
0:45:00 - Singal laughs at the reply Ana made to my post
Where basically I'm le anti-trans bigot paints Ana as a sexual predator (if the shoe fits) and a pedophile (if the shoe fits) and discredits his writing by character assassination (funny how character assassination only goes one way with Ana) to which Ana suspects me having sexual fantasies about ana as Trans.
0:45:25 - Singal mentions that he's sure Ana has gotten hate but "Why are they giving me this attention which I have been seeking online is pathetic" - Singal
0:45:50 - Singal comments that if someone goes to TimeSquare dresses up and acts like a chicken for years and then someone points it out and calls them a chicken then its absurd that they would get offended by it.
0:46:05 - Katie mentions that no one has come out as a victim so its not fair to call Ana a predator is a bit of a stretch but when you publicly "air your perversion don't be surprised when someone calls you a pervert"
0:47:00 - TVA mentioned again related to the pedophile allegations. Katie describes us as a website where people come to shit-talk Vtubers and compare us to Kiwi Farms. We are a drama site. And Proctor post gets mentioned (POCD thing).
0:49:00 - "I hate to defend Ana Valens but none of this makes her a pedophile and an abuser it just makes them a wierdo and a creep" - Katie
0:49:20 - You are a fool if you put that out there and not expect people to use it to judge you for it.
0:49:37 - Singal mentions that this seems like a humiliation kink Ana has where they post strong fucked up shit that would cause people to have a negative reaction to and then they can write about how it caused a negative reaction
Foreshadowing?
0:49:49 - What Ana's critics did is what Ana did to Kirsche. Taking their words stripping them of context and using it against them. Which isnt necessary because the shit that Ana says in public is bad enough as it is.
Fair
0:50:20 - Interesting that Ana wants to belong to a community while at the same time trying to cancel other people in that community for saying controversial shit when they themselves have a ton of weird and controversial shit.
0:50:55 - Katie goes back to explain the layers and that this is Ana's 3rd Vtuber article in this.
0:51:12 - Kiwi Farms mention (about Ana bitching about people getting his pronouns wrong).
0:51:39 - Katie makes a joke at Ana's closing statement on the 3rd hit piece (the part about Bigotry having no place in Vtubing).
0:51:55 - "They are deranged. This is so narcissistic." - Singal
0:52:08 - Mention of the updated part about the Tea company telling Ana to go kill himself.
0:52:30 - Katie mentions that Ana is getting dogpiled because this "has moved past Vtubing and Vice, a website no one reads anymore."
0:52:42 - Asmongold mentioned.
0:52:46 - Explaining who Asmongold is
0:53:05 - Katie mentions that she was looking up information about him on Reddit (why the fuck?) and the way people described him she thought he was a Nazi and she mentions that he is extremely tame.
0:53:47 - Katie mentions that Asmongold is "friends" with Kirsche. Not quite but they occupy a very similar space when it comes to commentary and many of their points.
0:53:58 - Since Asmongold reacted to the macaroni audio Ana is getting a ton of shit.
0:54:22 - "On Twitter people are posting #IStandWithKirsche and over on BlueSky people are posting #IStandWithAnaValens although it appears mostly its Ana Valens posting I stand with Ana Valens." - Katie
"Of Course" - Singal
0:54:30 - Mention of Waypoint "I Stand With Ana Valens" article. They proceed to write the first paragraph or two.
0:55:10 - Singal is reading the article "...Ana is being attacked for simply asking questions". He starts laughing.
0:55:42 - While reading Katie interrupts Singal to mention that the writing is "fucking egregious".
0:56:30 - Singal is confused about who the hell is Dwayne addressing in this article. Katie jokes that this is the Managing Editor at Waypoint.
0:57:10 - "How does Kirsche respond to all of this?" - Singal
0:57:40 - *explaining the Munya video taping envelope at Vice office*
0:58:09 - "I thought it was a lawsuit"- Singal. "Its not a lawsuit but its a bit of a threat." - Katie
0:58:19 - "Describe the letter." - Katie. "It looks like a 5th grader's book report." - Singal
0:59:05 - Going over Kirsche's letter. Says that there was no issue with GamerSupps until Ana started shit and Katie mentions that that was not "ENTIRELY TRUE" but mentions that it was only random twitter users tagging GSS (we all know it was Nbinted, Nyara, on BlueSky i also believe Silvy also did... there are more than enough archived posts but im not going to go through them now)
0:59:45 - Katie clarifies that Kirsche did not mention Kaiyo as a non-anonymous source. Lets be honest, dude's a nobody but sure I guess. She did talk about him a few times on stream though.
1:00:15 - For the record (seems to be post production edit) Vice didnt publish anything "calling Kirsche a Nazi" just a fan being a Nazi. So its implied. Nazi by association. So it wasnt "technically" in the articles. Katie hints that even Waypoint is not dumb enough to do that directly.
1:00:55 - Articles get taken down. "So Waypoint stands with Ana Valens... to a point."
1:01:20 - Defamation layers tend to be very specific and there is no way these articles were ran by a lawyer before they were published. So it could be one of those situations where you could maybe prove defamation. Singal mentions that its very hard to do this in US courts but them pulling the articles down doesnt help their case.
1:02:00 - There are no editor notes or anything, it just gets an error that the articles don't exist.
Katie - "Look i don't really like Ana Valens. I think she's a creep and a shitty journalist who is trying to..." [gets briefly interrupted by Singal]
Singal - "This is not the way to handle it."
Katie - "Right. Ana is trying to manufacture this controversy like its 2020, and that's not possible. Its not. I suspect this was about Ana's feelings getting hurt, because Kirsche made fun of her on her stream than anything else, which of course she never mentioned, but i dont think Kirsche has a great legal case here. In order to win a defamation case she would have to prove in court that Ana published false information which I dont think she has proven."
"She would have to prove that Vice publish false information knowing that its false and I dont think she has a case"
"Did Ana cherrypick examples? Yes. Did she take things out of context? Yes. But the bar to win a case like this is incredibly high. So I find this action of taking this down on VICE's part really strange..."
1:03:12 - *POST PRODUCTION EDIT* This also shows how far VICE has fallen. Old Vice would A. have never published multiple articles on "the problem with Vtubers" and B. would not have been intimidated by a cartoon fox with a halfassed letter . The fact that they pulled these articles down with no editor's note no apology, or nothing is not a normal practice.
1:03:55 - This is a victory for anti woke Vtubers. Ana has announced that they would leave social media (that was a fucking lie... Ana is too much of a fucking narcissist to do that).
1:05:05 - They play the clip from Ana's stream talking about it. They clarify that Ana deleted the twitter but started a new one. They also mention that Ana claimed to not post on BlueSky but is still posting on Bluesky. Katie also talks about Ana wanting to turn this into the next Gamergate. Mentions that Ana doesnt have the clout that Zoe Quinn did and also that Ana has a TON of baggage (I'd say its multiple suitcases full of cis women's corpses all chopped up). Who is going to defend Ana with all the shit they do?
1:06:10 - Singal mentions that this type of cancelation campaign wont work.
1:06:35 - Talking about the aftermath. Kirsche didnt lose GSS sponsorship. But lost a small one (Crimeboss) and that she got banned for 1 day for reading Ana's smut. Which Singal laughs at.
1:06:55 - Katie reached out to Ana to ask what happened, who took the article down, and if she consulted someone but she didnt hear back from Ana.
"The end result is that Ana tried to re-ignite GamerGate but this tame the Gamer Gaters won."
Singal asked if they could stop talking about Ana in the future. Katie says that no she can't promise that. Possibly hinting at Ana starting more shit again in the near future.
While a fairly clean rundown of things I feel like it still missed so much especially all of the people that got caught up in all of this that had little to nothing to do with it. Ana and his side pushing and harassing other content creators to also drop GamerSupps. Most importantly JoCat who did not have a contract and HeavenlyFather who said he hated Nazis (which Kirsche isnt one but he ran with the narrative people paint of her) but that he wouldnt be dropping his sponsorship. To which Ana tried to somehow weaponize only to backfire when he called Ana out on his stupid little gay war. Then the following articles made by Subhuman Indian guy on Sportskeeta which seem to be written by Ai because the fucking video shown disproves the headline. And other shit like the article where someone went after Nagzz and Koefficient for being sponsored by GSS.
People like Klaus (NyaraVT) who is probably on suicide watch because he got out of his echo chamber and realized that the vast majority of people disagree with the stupid shit he is trying to push (all of it self-inflicted).
Additionally most of the people talking to Kirsche about pursuing legal action are trying to do so from business interference and less from a defamation point of view. My personal thoughts on this is that by guilt by association they are trying to ruin Kirsche's reputation and they did so willingly. Ana did not randomly stumbled into this, Ana chose to go out of their way to get IN the fire and then cry because they got burned.
From the way Singal reacted to some things I assume he might lean left and the type that would normally be against Kirsche but even in all of this he seems to be more on Kirsche's side than on Ana possibly from an objective point of view of Ana manipulating things only to create problems just so he can talk about it later on and use it as a way to somehow gain support for his failed content creation attempts. You know its quite impressive how common it is to see people that disagree normally with Kirsche calling Ana out for the stupid shit they have done. Ana is no different than a piece of shit on the sidewalk. Its so disgusting and foul that people that would normally be on their side just avoid it entirely.
The fact that they are trying to somehow flip this shit into being "transphobia" is also hilarious to me.
Gay people don't even bother announcing they're gay repeatedly because it's not part of their personality, but part of their life. Tourist is right, for once, even if he's a fag.
Gay people don't even bother announcing they're gay repeatedly because it's not part of their personality, but part of their life. Tourist is right, for once, even if he's a fag.
Yeahhhh, I know we hate genderspecials who attack our hobbies and shit here but I know plenty of gays and lesbians who don't bring it up unless you literally ask them to, pretty normal people imo. I may make plenty of jokes at the expense of minorities and women and such but don't confuse that with actually having a universal hatred of said groups, I judge by personal character first and foremost and think everyone on all sides should, but I also recognize that sorting, and therefore judging, people by group is human nature (I do it too unconciously), so I won't call you a bigot if you do.
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