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Getting Nihongo Jouzu

agility_

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Joined:  Sep 14, 2022
My last straw on duolingo was
今何時ですか?
"what time is it" Or more anally "what time is it now" of course to my dumb english speaking mind its the same fucking thing but you know computers care too much and then the program actively penalizes you for getting it "wrong". Duolingo until that moment at least had the advantage of being enjoyable but yeah it dies off fast.

One of the first kanji I learned to associate was 今 with the notion of "now, this moment" thus this would've worked for me. I guess the Heisig stuff did pay off in the end.
e: sure enough online translators will skip the 今 and just give you "what time is it?"
 

Clem the Gem

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Joined:  Sep 10, 2022
As for the other thing that does sound a little creepy I am choosing to believe it's sheer laziness ...
Well.. maybe not completely. But anyway.. this is becoming a bit of a Duolingo Bad (which it is) thread. To get back on topic, does anyone know of anywhere other than Duolingo where you can practice actually writing (typing) Japanese sentences?
 

Postal rrat

chinshilla
Joined:  Mar 19, 2023
One of the first kanji I learned to associate was 今 with the notion of "now, this moment" thus this would've worked for me. I guess the Heisig stuff did pay off in the end.
e: sure enough online translators will skip the 今 and just give you "what time is it?"
I mean I figured out why it wants that answer but it's still easy to trip over and in natural English those are effectively the same statement except if you want to subtlety point out that the other person has the time wrong "What time is it, now" point being is that both translations are technically correct except in some very rare edge cases.

Well.. maybe not completely. But anyway.. this is becoming a bit of a Duolingo Bad (which it is) thread. To get back on topic, does anyone know of anywhere other than Duolingo where you can practice actually writing (typing) Japanese sentences?
Chat GPT is always happy to have practice conversations with you, and can usually tell you what you got wrong I don't really have much outside of that
 
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Banana Hammock

Born to Sneed
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Joined:  Sep 9, 2022
Huh. Has anyone tried out the Kanji-teaching games for the Nintendo DS/3DS?

I already bought a Genkouyoushi notebook, but it'd be cool to be able to just use my 3ds and a stylus to practice writing.
 
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Banana Hammock

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Joined:  Sep 9, 2022
If you want an app version of WaniKani, you can apparently download a third-party app and link your account to it. I personally prefer Hakubun over Smouldering Durtles (a fork of an older app, Burning Durtles, which has apparently been abandoned), even though it's still in beta. Much nicer interface, imo.
 
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yuckyyaki

Yabai enthusiast
Joined:  Oct 18, 2022
If you want an app version of WaniKani, you can apparently download a third-party app and link your account to it. I personally prefer Hakubun over Smouldering Durtles (a fork of an older app, Burning Durtles, which has apparently been abandoned), even though it's still in beta. Much nicer interface, imo.
Adding on to this, there's an iOS version called Tsurukame for Wanikani as well
 

Banana Hammock

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Gorilla Drip

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Joined:  Jan 7, 2023
Ok so, I've been using this thread for a bit while helping myself become Nihongo Jouzu, so I figured I could share a few things I've found that haven't been mentioned (unless I'm blind and gay) in the previous pages. "Giving back to the community" etc etc.
I'm an undergrad who's studying japanese in uni right now, and I'm mostly doing the studying through the means described in the previous pages. In particular, I've found the /jp/ writeup to be a decent starting point. Do consider though that I probably have more time I can dedicate to studying due to basically freeing myself from a big exam each year through self-study. I've started with Core 2.3k at 20 new cards per day and Tango N5 at 10/day. Tae Kim for grammar (I dislike video format but I guess CureDolly is pretty good too). I didn't do as much immersion early on but I think this was a mistake, a few months in I started just watching anime without mining anything yet.

A great tool for watching sub jp anime + mining is asbplayer, which I'm still actively using for mining even now. You use a site that lets you turn off english subs and just drag and drop jp subs on the video through the extension. Useful keybinds are ctrl+shift+l/r key to fix offset (remember to check "remember offset" in asbplayer's options) and just left and right to move between subtitle lines. Remember to set a keybind for mining, too!

When I finished the new cards in Core 2.3k I moved to mining with the same anime I was watching before. For my mining/yomitan/anki setup I used Xelieu's Lazy Guide, in tandem with Aquafina's JP Mining Note card format (bear in mind I linked the beta release for this format because the stable release has a few bugs and Aquafina is MIA). They work pretty great and, especially for anime, they let you create pretty good working and looking cards in less than a minute. If you don't like JPMN, you can check out other mining card formats Aquafina links on the site.
1705071172817.png
Since Yomichan is not recieving updates, I'm also using TheMoeWay's Yomitan fork. For its setup, you can use Xelieu's guide.

For manga, I personally use ZXY101's Mokuro fork and I process manga myself. For manga mining setups check Xelieu's guide in tandem with mokuro.moe (the site also has a small collection of pre-processed manga you can use if you don't want/don't have time to process).

Since my exams also include handwriting, I'm using the android app Ringotan to help myself. It has an (albeit pretty basic) SRS and a lot of lists of kanji you can choose from. Need to prepare for JLPT? They have it. Need it for uni? Sure thing. I personally use Minna No Nihongo's list since it's my textbook. Also be sure to turn on the option that lets you see your lines just to understand how bad you actually are (and get better).

If anyone's as crazy as me and uses Anki for android and refuses to use "Easy" and "Hard" you can just use gestures to make Anki become Tinder (I know). It does wonders for review speed, I swear. Basically set the gesture for swiping left "again" and the gesture for swiping right "good". To reveal cards you can make the gesture just clicking anywhere on the card or it'll automatically reveal it if you swipe either left or right (after you setup the Tinder system).

Another pretty important new thing I haven't seen mentioned here is FSRS 4.0, a new repetition algorhythm integrated into the newest versions of Anki. To activate it, just go to the deck options and turn it on. Set your desired retetion to a feasible amount (somewhere around 75-95 I think, though I put every deck closer to the former) and you're golden. If you have more than 1000 reviews on the deck format, Anki will also personalize FSRS values to fit your review patterns. If you are as crazy as me and review on Ankidroid, make sure to download the alpha version from github, and the FSRS4Anki Helper add-on so it will reschedule your stuff every time you sync it on PC. Also explained in Xelieu's guide if I'm not mistaken. Either way, this system is much more efficient than Anki's default.
1705071348346.png
For FAQs you can check out TheMoeWay's site/discord (already linked in the /jp/ writeup) or Ren Tatsumoto's site. Animecards.site is also historically relevant, though I feel a bit outdated compared to Xelieu's guide.

Another thing I suggest but which I'm still yet to try is using two shows at once for Japanese learning, as suggested by Ren. One of which you'll be searching every word of, the other you'll just be free-flowing and trying to understand on the fly. I'm sure it might help with listening ability, especially if someone's interested in passing some JLPT exam or just achieving fluency. My current goal is achieving N3 next year and possibly N2 in two years (trying to get in a japanese university for my Master's through MEXT. I know big dreams etc but one can hope.)
Since we're on a Vtuber forum I think Vtubers can be a good source of passive/free-flow immersion. I suggest Kson in particular since she sometimes repeats things in English and has a clearer pronunciation than others (she's the only one I can actually understand a few sentences without subs). You can technically also use clips as mining source by searching ホロライブ切り抜き or something on Youtube, since Japanese clips always has subtitles. You just have to pray your OCR has any idea what is being said. I tried it a few times with Kanata, but is it me or does she have a pretty complex japanese?

Hope I linked something you didn't already know, but I'll be sure to add stuff if I find anything interesting to the list in the future.
 
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Azehara

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Joined:  Sep 11, 2022
I lack the structure and discipline to study by myself. I need to force myself out of the house to be able to get anything done. This is a problem since there really isnt any places around that I can get classes.
 

Banana Hammock

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Joined:  Sep 9, 2022
I lack the structure and discipline to study by myself. I need to force myself out of the house to be able to get anything done. This is a problem since there really isnt any places around that I can get classes.
Not sure how expensive it would be, but you can hire a tutor. Even if there aren't any near you, there are tutors that use zoom and discord.
 

Gorilla Drip

Well-known member
Joined:  Jan 7, 2023
Despite my earlier longpost, I thought of making another once since a decently big new tool for JP learners has just been released. In short, a new beginner anki deck just released. It aims to fix the faults of both Core 2.3k and Tango N5 while keeping the utility of both, with the intention of jump-starting immersion as soon as possible. This deck is called Kaishi 1.5k (ankiweb), and while I personally won't be using it (since I've already finished both Tango and Core), I think it's a good opportunity for anybody who has been waiting until now to finally get Nihongo Jouzu.

I'll also include a bit of other conclusions I've come to inbetween the two posts below.
I eventually did try active immerison as suggested by Ren Tatsumoto, and it is now a prominent part of my immersion. I've noticed a great improvement in my listening and general comprehension of japanese through it, though the first few weeks felt rather awkward because not understanding stuff is a pretty big hurdle for adults and we tend to feel bad about it. When you actually start to just wing it and try and understand as much as possible without focusing too much on getting every little thing, it becomes much easier and you'll start enjoying it more, while also getting quite a lot of gains.

These days I usually immerse intensively in one episode of anime A (Haruhi Suzumiya for me right now. Yes I did watch all of Endless Eight in Japanese - it's actually better for us since our brain loves repetion in language learning), and then watch two/three episodes of anime B (I suggest of a similar genre to anime A to facilitate the learning of new words of the same domain) and maybe another episode of anime C, if you want to watch something else to get a bit of variety.

I also made some gains in the vtuber sphere: I'm now watching Kanata's Persona 4 playthrough, and it's been an incredible learning tool. First of all, I know the game by heart so I can discern what is being said by the characters almost all the time, and it also makes it easier for me to understand Kanata's comments. She could be speaking a bit more slowly though, damn it.

Secondly, when the game isn't dubbed, Kanata reads most important dialogues, so it's actually easier to understand than the game itself when it is not dubbed. But the most important thing is you're getting a constant flow of language, even during gameplay, and sometimes even a double flow of language, which I think actually counts as a bit more gains than you'd expect. Plus, of course, there's motivation - I personally find it easier to follow hours of live content than anime episodes. Weird brain, I guess. I suggest you also try and find a similar type of live content for your intermediate-ish language learning and above. Maybe a visual novel played by your favorite vtuber? Something like that. Do be aware you will NOT be understanding a lot of stuff and that may be annoying. But, you'll be free from clippers, so that's good.

Lastly, there is another way of obtaining language gains if you're brave enough. This is passive immersion. This is when you're doing mindless tasks and have time to listen some Japanese. Personally, I do not make use of this technique anymore, since I've noticed I do not have any tasks of the required type to do (oh, to be young), and I can just do active immersion all the time - which is better, but some of you might make use of this. Basically, the way I did it was just to put a few episodes of Anime A - the one you were intensively immersing on (it HAS to be comprehensible input because you'll get distracted and will need to know what anyone is saying at any given moment, or else it'll just be white noise), listen to them and try to get the gist of it.

There is a few ways to minmax this, though. One is, if you're on linux and tech-savvy, is to use Ren's mpv method. For us, normal human beings, absplayer has a playback mode that skips all of the time when there are no subtitles on screen (Alt+Shift+O). I do think you have to have the files locally for this, though, since it'll lag quite a bit if you're streaming. You'll have to also adjust offset manually quite a bit, but it's a possibility. Otherwise, just listening to the episode is fine, you'll get a bit more dead moments.

I've also had the displeasure of discovering anime mining of local files, which is a real pain in the ass for specific shows. Basically what happened is, the first season of Haruhi was lagging really bad and made mining a pain in the ass, so I decided - foolishly - to download the whole thing from nyaa. The files for anime on nyaa usually come as mkv. Mkv files cannot be played on chromium browsers (where asbplayer is, mind you), so you'll have to convert them to mp4 with VLC (expect a bit of quality loss). It's a bit of a pain, but that's that. Do remember to turn off subtitles when exporting, since you'll be loading subtitles through asb. Then you can just drag the mp4 in asbplayer's page and it should work fine (unless the codec is weird and you'll have to make a bit of trial and error to get the right one).

If, however, your video has more audio-tracks - as is the case for Haruhi - you will have to insert this line of code: ":no-sout-all :audio-track=n" (with n being the japanese audio track number e.g. 1, counted starting from 0, so 1 is the second one) in VLC in the window I've showcased below.
1708865999923.png
In short, it's a mess. Do try and use streaming when possible.

If you only need anime that you can't find without subtitles on the most popular streaming sites (for example I had this issue with K-On!), there is another tool. It can technically work with asb too (if you use it in your browser) but it'll lag a bit, so I only suggest it for active immersion if you don't want to rely on warez. It's Stremio (and its alternatives), which can basically just stream from nyaa torrent files directly without having to download anything. The file needs to have a few seeders, but it's worked wonders for me. It can also stream on a smart TV if you want! You can select audio, video and subtitle tracks so you can just remove subs (or use JP ones you can import) and enjoy the ride.

As for updates for previous tools, do be sure to use Arbyste's documentation for JPMN (which has now been updated to pre-release-16) and also the new version of AJT japanese made specifically for this note format. Everything else shouldn't have changed. Do remember to update Yomitan handlebars to the latest version from the docs.
This post was supposed to be shorter originally, but well, hey, might help somebody.
 

agility_

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Joined:  Sep 14, 2022
Not my position to question how anyone chooses to get Jouzu, but how can you stand Haruhi ?

vv e: the poster above me is watching Haruhi as intensive immersion.
 
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Murrayしないで

Just go live!
Joined:  Nov 18, 2022
Not my position to question how anyone chooses to get Jouzu, but how can you stand Haruhi ?

Suzumiya? What does she have to do with nihongo jyouzu?
 

Thomas Talus

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Gorilla Drip

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Joined:  Jan 7, 2023
Not my position to question how anyone chooses to get Jouzu, but how can you stand Haruhi ?

vv e: the poster above me is watching Haruhi as intensive immersion.
I very much don't, but no pain no gain. Right...? At least she speaks the clearest. Yuki (the few times she talks) drops a line of 5-8 kanji you have to decipher. One time even Kyon was dumbfounded by her picking random kanji from the dictionary.

Jokes aside I just chose material that was close enough to school SoL while also having some more complex vocabulary I could spend elsewhere (like the Conan-like mystery island episode or the one where they fight on space ships).
 

Banana Hammock

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Banana Hammock

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For those of you that have actually learned a good bit of Japanese (around N2-N3), how many new words per day would you suggest? Right now, I've got the app I use (Renshuu) set to fifteen new words per day, and then I'll review about a hundred. Might increase the latter, and just review everything I have, but that would end up taking a lot of time after a while.

If I can keep this up long-term (doubtful, but I'll try), I figure I'll be N1 in 2-3 years. 330*15=4950, assuming I skip about a month's worth of days per year. N1 is 10000 words and 2000 kanji.

On a related note, would you say that Japanese gets easier to learn as you get further into it? It feels like it would, since you can start actually reading/watching media after you learn a certain amount, which will allow you to learn new words and phrases through context.
 
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yuckyyaki

Yabai enthusiast
Joined:  Oct 18, 2022
For those of you that have actually learned a good bit of Japanese (around N2-N3), how many new words per day would you suggest? Right now, I've got the app I use (Renshuu) set to fifteen new words per day, and then I'll review about a hundred. Might increase the latter, and just review everything I have, but that would end up taking a lot of time after a while.

If I can keep this up long-term (doubtful, but I'll try), I figure I'll be N1 in 2-3 years. 330*15=4950, assuming I skip about a month's worth of days per year. N1 is 10000 words and 2000 kanji.

On a related note, would you say that Japanese gets easier to learn as you get further into it? It feels like it would, since you can start actually reading/watching media after you learn a certain amount, which will allow you to learn new words and phrases through context.
Personally, I never had a daily goal, but a weekly goal of 50-100 and I ended up somewhere around N2-N1 after just over a year. I'd recommend with setting a pace for yourself where you actually read and take in the information rather than just thinking "Gotta get through this fast, I've got so many to get through!", even if it takes years.
 

Banana Hammock

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Personally, I never had a daily goal, but a weekly goal of 50-100 and I ended up somewhere around N2-N1 after just over a year. I'd recommend with setting a pace for yourself where you actually read and take in the information rather than just thinking "Gotta get through this fast, I've got so many to get through!", even if it takes years.
Yeah, but if it takes me like five years, there's a decent chance that my favorite JP chuubas will have graduated by that point.

That said, 50-100 per week is about 7-14 per day, so it sounds like I'm in about the right spot with this plan. Maybe a bit high. If it turns out to be too much for me, I can drop it down to 5-10 words per day for a while.
 

nooternun

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Joined:  Mar 15, 2023
New channel for everyone.

Lots of comments in JP too, interesting
 
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