General Vtuber Discussion (V1)

[thhrang]

Pippa talks about Rekieta's ban for less than 2 minutes, immediately this:

Stay classy, jl7.

 

[Username Required]

Possible copyright issues. Easiest way to avoid it is not to use AI-created art.

It's definitely to avoid future legal issues. They use fanart for thumbnails and whatnot. AI art right now is in a grey area in terms of who exactly made the art and therefore who the art should belong/be credited to.

 

[Gravedigger]

it’s a confusing legal web

copyright issues

That would make sense, their tweets just didn't sound like it was a legal concern to them.
Also shouldn't there be an end user agreement or some such thing with the AI?

Sometimes I'm dumbfounded, I utterly fail to see any immorality. Sure, definitely aknowledge the tools used, but I have no idea what reddit seems to have against AI art.

 

[BioBreak]

Not the worst comment I’ve seen, but the worst in that thread.

Can't be be much worse than this:



"AI cannot advocate for themselves"

Does this mothefucker think the AI is sentient already?

 

[Realticule]

Pippa talks about Rekieta's ban for less than 2 minutes, immediately this:
View attachment 1804
Stay classy, jl7.

"Guys, my oshi is having fun again, make her stop!"

"AI cannot advocate for themselves"

Neither can CNC machines, so fuck 'em.

 

[agility_]

I've read a bit of your guys' conversation about it, but I still don't get what the fuss is about. Art is about feelings and shit, it should look good, how is it relevant how was made? Especially Kiara's "real" confuses me, how is this not real art?

Picture this. You see three people. #1 is a dedicated poopsock no-life just draw artist. The type that has a wacom studio setup and has some overachieving looking fanart or doodle ready by the time the stream ends, just in time to get boosted by the meme status and maybe the talent's manager twitter account.
#2 is a casual draw/illustrator. Has a real job and doodles on the side. Sometimes will make stunning art, sometimes a shitpost doodle, but will usually take days, or a week. Seldom gets noticed by a few people on twitter and the art just gets buried under a pile of realeffort works.

Now #3 here is interesting. Can't draw, can't sketch, can't do anything; but is a wiz at SEO and abusing the right patterns for that phat algorithm-showcasing query hogging. He has Good art, memeable art, you name it, and he has it in seconds, ready to be posted at the right moment. He will get noticed, he will get the clicks and put them to his use.

For you and I, this shit doesn't matter much. For drawfaggots who either eat or starve based on how recognizable their stuff is on social media, this is armaggeddon. If you ever wondered why talented illustrators all seem to put out the same themes, based on what's popular at that particular moment (sherlock, marvel capeshit, frozen, baby yoda, etc...) now you know.

 

[Piarro]

Gura is now directly addressing the AI art thing. She's saying that she's scared she's going to accidentally like a piece of AI art in her hashtag, and people will get mad at her.

 

[2DUM4U]

I've read a bit of your guys' conversation about it, but I still don't get what the fuss is about. Art is about feelings and shit, it should look good, how is it relevant how was made?

This is not a new thing, as I said before. People resent it when an mindless automated process successfully replicates a feat that used to require a conscious, trained human mind. Also, if you're an artist who has invested years of hard work (not to mention your fragile sense of self-worth) into building a skillset, then the idea that any yahoo with an app can produce a picture that looks as good as yours must be grating. Also also, it means fewer commissions for you as people just tell the AI to make their waifu-smut.

EDIT:

Does this mothefucker think the AI is sentient already?

It's funny how pop culture is so infested with the idea of conscious ai that some people, like the one you quoted, just begin with that assumption. I personally don't think sentient ai is plausible, but programmed outputs that can successfully mimic the responses of conscious beings are pretty much inevitable.

EDIT:

As an art scholar currently working on your masters’s degree, you are a waste of resources and have less value than the things you consume in order to live.

If you're an art scholar, this is the greatest thing that could happen for you. Philosphers and artists will be debating over this for years and years. The pretentious theses practically write themselves. Just look at me.

EDIT:
Damn, BluezKaito is fast.

 

[Aka Split]

Can't be be much worse than this:

View attachment 1802

"AI cannot advocate for themselves"

Does this mothefucker think the AI is sentient already?

Frick I just made the mistake of looking at twitter for 10 seconds.

As an art scholar currently working on your masters’s degree, you are a waste of resources and have less value than the things you consume in order to live.

 

[BioBreak]

Gura is now directly addressing the AI art thing. She's saying that she's scared she's going to accidentally like a piece of AI art in her hashtag, and people will get mad at her.

Sounds like a great flag for which schizos to block. Imagine someone losing their shit just because their oshi LIKED an AI art.

 

[Realticule]

"What's a Nakadashi? Oh, it's a cream pie? Like the food?" - Pippa

What did she expect?

 

[Godzilla1984]

"What's a Nakadashi? Oh, it's a cream pie? Like the food?" - Pippa

 

[RestlessRain]

If AI art can replace your art you aren't that great an artist and should have been rethinking your life choices years ago.

 

[thhrang]

"Guys, my oshi is having fun again, make her stop!"

"She isn't having fun in the way that I personally find acceptable and approve of! I will make sure my grievances are known by shitting up her chat and donos until she caves into my every whim like I'm some sort of tranny."
- The JL7ten Mindset.

 

[Punished Anime Discusser]

"What's a Nakadashi? Oh, it's a cream pie? Like the food?" - Pippa

What did she expect?

I mean, she did say something along the lines of "I am creampie" before looking it up. I think "Creampie at your own risk" would be more appropriate.

 

[Realticule]

If AI art can replace your art you aren't that great an artist and should have been rethinking your life choices years ago.

The reality is that almost everything boils down to marketing, because the story behind the product or art is always going to be more compelling than the art itself to a human audience. Even functional shit like technology is usually sold more by convincing people they need it than convincing them it will make their life easier, just look up how Xerox failed to sell the GUI and just dumped it off on Steve Jobs.

I mean, she did say something along the lines of "I am creampie" before looking it up. I think "Creampie at your own risk" would be more appropriate.

She did look it up and was rather surprised by it. Maybe no one has gone near the Pippussy in a long time.

 

[AyoTempus]

I am interested in how it plays out with him, I can vary a lot in my style depending on the type of group I'm running with and what their expectations are of the game. It's unfortunate that Crit Role kind of bred this age of players that more or less just want a loosely corralled chatroom RP experience with some loose dice arbitration on key events and to be fed this grand story, when that's hardly typical for anyone that isn't a major writing sperg. Even then, that style of game doesn't always mesh with everyone. Sometimes you just want to smash monsters and gather loot. I can get behind someone with a good sense for setting the scene and leading the game where they want it to go and that's where most of my respect for Calli comes from, she is actually really good at bringing your attention into the game, at least for me.

My issue with Vesper's outlook, I feel like it might be a bit harsh for new players that don't really grasp what they're in for. Axel's history with CoC I think he'll be fine since my experience with that system, it's a little unforgiving itself, but I think Magni's going to get rolled. I've played with new players so many times overs the years, I find going too hard on freshies out of the gate kills their mood, so I hope he goes the route where he paints their campaign as some grueling challenge but he's going soft on them behind the scenes so that he can let them have a 'hard won victory' even though he was softballing the entire time. Then he can meatgrinder the fuck out of them in the next campaign.


I wildly oscillate between understanding and not understanding Vesper's stance on not wanting to use 'Elysium' because it's part of kayfabe and would be awkward to them, but at the same time c'mon man we know you're not really a Great Value Alucard. I sympathize and disagree with his stance on it and don't really understand why, beyond yeah, maybe he doesn't want to end up canonizing something that someone else in Cover has plans for.

I get not wanting to play into the kind of game that just feeds players wish fulfillment, but at the same time that can be a good lead to start really challenging the players. Feed them a bit of easy dubs, pander to the character fantasy a little, but slowly you're starting to reel them into the shallows and it's full of grit and pain as now they're invested in keeping their little happiness fountain safe and the threats they're starting to deal with are genuinely concerning. Players that are really into the game will get into the drama of their characters being threatened but managing to scrape by or fight their way out. Players that just want to be catered to will wash out on their own.

Vesper I think knows his players are new, he outright said he's made something to the effect of "A game that is easy, but feels hard." when he was talking about new players so I think he knows completely that Magni is going to be a little bit of a glue eating idiot with his first real attempt at DnD. Let's be real, Vesper is an incredible nice guy for the most part especially to his fellows, I doubt he'll make a meat grinder dungeon at level 2 (the level he says Tempus will start on-stream, as they'll be playing level 1 off-stream as a test) just to really test his players. I'd expect something like that to show up around level 5 or 6 if he knows about the power spikes innate to 5e's system where level 5 is an entirely different game due to how extra attack and 3rd level magic changes the game. My only doubts with Vesper is he is a Pathfinder 1.0 kind of guy from what he said, so I don't know how much he actually knows about current age 5e as far as running it.

I personally think Altare may have his own kind of issues, as Altare has shown to have some genuine insecurity issues with his streaming. I wonder if he'll try to do something cool to be part of big moment and just fall flat on his face due to bad dice rolls or just overextending into a situation that he didn't understand, and then he just feel deflated over it overtime as he fails. Altare does this with his gaming streams where he malds and tilts because he feels he is doing poorly live on stream, blue boy just refuses to be bad at video games and has admitted that he wants to be the "pro gamer" of Tempus because he feels he offers nothing else compared to the other three. So I wonder if that will happen in something like DnD given the "Critical Role" effect that is just part of DnD's normie sphere these days where people try to LARP like Critical Role actors, fail, and just quit DnD entirely. Plus it is doubtful Altare had a DM as potentially harsh as Vesper, so who knows how he might react to Vesper's more older school style.

I personally would try to push for a TTRPG "Elysium" theme setting if I were in his position, because I think vtuber lore is just underexplored in Holo in general and this feels like the perfect chance to do something with it that can be fun and maybe even remotely interesting. The only real issue imo is Vesper NPCing anyone Tempus member that isn't himself, because that can be weird to DM in the moment and you don't want to create a weird plot hole that effective asks "Why doesn't Guild Tempus just do something about the dragon coming to threaten Elysium?". I'd personally do the legwork with management to make it happen if I was allowed to do it, but maybe management just said no outright and that's just the end of it.

I just to see a situation where they go to "Northern Elysium" where everyone talks like Axel so Vesper has to do an Axel impression, and we learn the "Syrios" family is some kind of rich off their ass noble family where Axel is some kind of wayward son who just fucked off to become a singing Gladiator for Tempus. This would mean that what Altare said about getting 10 million USD to start Tempus to wingman for Axel trying to impress Nodoka was an actually true thing that really happened within Tempus canon.

 

[RestlessRain]

The reality is that almost everything boils down to marketing, because the story behind the product or art is always going to be more compelling than the art itself to a human audience. Even functional shit like technology is usually sold more by convincing people they need it than convincing them it will make their life easier, just look up how Xerox failed to sell the GUI and just dumped it off on Steve Jobs.

Sure, marketing is always relevant. Everyone knows what McDonalds is but they still spends billions in advertising. But if there isn't any discernible difference between your art and the janky AI art currently being shit out, then you're a shit artist. Sucks you had to find out from me but there it is. If there is a discernible quality to your art, then that's going to be a point of difference for an artist and why people are going to seek you out and promote you.

 

[The Rrat]

I don't think the whole AI art thing is as black and white as people make it out to be. The fact that these things usually pull from an aggregate of art owned by people who did not allow the aggregation of their art of third party sites, like gelbooru, danbooru, etc. I feel like that puts AI art in a gray area where I don't inherently find anything wrong with its creation, but I do with bad actors using it for monetary gain.

It would be like someone pulling code in from a bunch of different open source projects, but not agreeing to their use-licensing and not crediting them.

Also, artists are "pompous" about stuff like this because a lot of them work on commission or contract and most have experience, before becoming more well-known, of getting screwed over by some asshole who won't pay or tries to not pay.

So like, I don't mind AI art, I think it is an awesome use of technology, but I don't trust people enough to not abuse it lol.


Also any VTuber that is not a total idiot will distance themselves from AI art or at least not really touch on the subject. Potentially pissing off an artist you work with is not worth it.

 

[Tamavitch]

The people who hate AI art are (unsurprisingly) mainly artists, they had the horrible realization that most people can't tell the difference and AI art has the power to make their income/clout-source completely obsolete. I would normally also be against it, but since artfags are some of the most pompous people on the planet and I find them utterly insufferable, I am actually glad that they are getting knocked down a couple pegs, it will be even funnier when it affects the """professionals""" who paint 2 squares and sell for 100k by making up some bullshit.

Lifelong classically trained fine artist here (portraiture and still lifes in oil and charcoal primarily). All artists pretty much hate all other artists. It's like Westerners in Japan when they run into another Westerner. Every other artist is seen as a hostile competitor stealing limelight and specialness from you. I have dealt with it since childhood. My little corner of the art world is fairly small these days and very unhip but I used to be a cartoonist and animator back in the day (talking early-mid 90's) and got to watch that entire field crash and burn around me as CGI was born. I was training since third grade to do what at the time was a dead skill, watch the so-called Disney Renaissance hit (think Beauty and the Beast winning Oscars here) and the WB tv animation boom (I did a little work on some of that)...then watching it die and be replaced with CGI. I am watching this happen all over again now.
But here's the thing. It doesn't affect me because I know how to draw, paint, and sculpt real things directly from life in front of me. Evergreen skills that photography failed to replace, CGI failed to replace, and so-called AI will fail to replace. Just like digital and synth failed to replace playing violin. So now the fun for me is watching the worst cunts imaginable seethe, suffer, and die from lack of undeserved attention. These are the modern "art" dipshits who are mostly trust fund babies with 0 skill or soul but who make a mint while not being able to draw a goddamn thing. They are the most sheltered, out-of-touch, ivory tower retards you can possibly imagine. Picture 2022 peak Twatter speds but ones who were like that 30 years ago. The people Andy Warhol's whole career was focused on bilking and humiliating. These are the ones posting "learn to code, truckers" and are now going to be completely replaced because their soulless, 0-skill, lazy, ugly, deliberately awful trash that people like me have derided as mass-produced crap will actually be mass-produced. Feels good, man. Meanwhile truckers are still being hired every day and commie subhuman spoiled adult children are headed for welfare (paid for by rednecks).
tldr this AI shit can only replace worthless hacks and I welcome it as long as the meme lasts

p.s. Yes, big money art is absolutely a money laundering scam and all about kickbacks, favors, and tax fraud hence hundreds of thousands to worthless trash who tape a banana peel to a wall but as always, the media who support and applaud these "people" are the ones who deserve the rope the most. And all of the AI art is just basically a big Photoshop filter that edits existing art btw, nothing new is created. It's a glorified collage. Might be different in the future but not as any iteration of this current tech that just alters human-made pictures.