General Thread v2: Enhanced Segregation Techniques!

[Watamate]

everytime people talk about hololive idol shit being a deterrent. I just want to remind them shiori and kaela exists. It's only as physical as you want it to be. Did Kaela even do much dancing on her 3d debut, I remember most of it being an elementary school excercise. And when she sings she just stand around.
Also did everyone memoryhole mumei and selen thinking they joined the same corp? I bet selen did apply for hololive together with mumei, she just ended up getting chosen by niji and rejected by holo. The big barier of difficulty has always been whether hololive wanting to take her not the other way around
Polka definitely thinned down, but Okayu I dont think she changed much, being a lazy fat ass is her charm point anyway

Kaela admittedly hasn't participated in a fes yet though, isn't the coming one her first one? I am excited to see how she does though.

I don't remember if she was part of Summer Splash or not though.

 

[RestlessRain]

I've been looking at subscriber growth for Nijisanji talents. Long story short, growth has really stagnated in the EN branch of Niji, particularly over the last month. I thought this was interesting enough to share.

Spoiler: How to get old youtube sub counts

The site https://virtual-youtuber.userlocal.jp/ retrieves Youtube sub counts for youtubers. If you use the Wayback archives, you can find out the sub counts of a talent over time and create your own table or chart. Here's an example I did of Selen that I posted on the Niji Ls thread:

So, here's Selen's sub count at various dates, thanks to Wayback Machine:

Date	Subs
August 1, 2021	89K
December 28, 2021	206K
March 16, 2022	273K
May 11, 2022	343K
July 13, 2022	434K
October 7, 2022	548K
December 30, 2022	610K
March 6, 2023	679K
June 13, 2023	720K
September 30, 2023	758K
January 2, 2024	788K
February 3, 2024	806K

Now, let's look at some sub numbers for talents (not an exhaustive list):
Elira - 598K at Dec 28, 606K currently. 8K in a bit over a month.
Rosemi - 495K at Dec 7, 502K currently. 7K in two months.
Petra - 520K at Dec 27, 522K currently. 2K in a bit over a month.
Millie - 552K at Dec 31, 555K currently. 3K in a bit over a month.
Reimu - 447K at Dec 30, 449K currently. 2K in a bit over a month.
Maria - 437K at Nov 28, 443K currently. 6K in two months.
Aia - 318K at Dec 28, 320K currently. 2K in a month.
Victoria - 93.0K at Dec 23, 97.3K currently. 4K in a month.

Also, a few males (also not an exhaustive list):
Vox - 1.39M at Dec 31, 1.39M currently. Less than 10K subs in a month.
Luca - 1.08M at Dec 27, 1.08M currently. Less than 10K subs in a month.
Ren - 497K at Dec 1, 507K currently. 10K subs in two months.

There are a few outliers. Selen grew 18K subs in the last month and Pomu grew 25K subs in just over a month. Both have obvious circumstances that would explain these anomalies.

Now, what does this mean? For the regular viewer, I'd argue not much - just be happy if your oshi is still around and making content. However, if you're interested in Nijisanji EN as an overall business concern, and remaining separate from the JP side of Niji, I would be concerned about the overall lack of growth.

 

[Bronze]

I've been looking at subscriber growth for Nijisanji talents. Long story short, growth has really stagnated in the EN branch of Niji, particularly over the last month. I thought this was interesting enough to share.

Spoiler: How to get old youtube sub counts

The site https://virtual-youtuber.userlocal.jp/ retrieves Youtube sub counts for youtubers. If you use the Wayback archives, you can find out the sub counts of a talent over time and create your own table or chart. Here's an example I did of Selen that I posted on the Niji Ls thread:

Now, let's look at some sub numbers for talents (not an exhaustive list):
Elira - 598K at Dec 28, 606K currently. 8K in a bit over a month.
Rosemi - 495K at Dec 7, 502K currently. 7K in two months.
Petra - 520K at Dec 27, 522K currently. 2K in a bit over a month.
Millie - 552K at Dec 31, 555K currently. 3K in a bit over a month.
Reimu - 447K at Dec 30, 449K currently. 2K in a bit over a month.
Maria - 437K at Nov 28, 443K currently. 6K in two months.
Aia - 318K at Dec 28, 320K currently. 2K in a month.
Victoria - 93.0K at Dec 23, 97.3K currently. 4K in a month.

Also, a few males (also not an exhaustive list):
Vox - 1.39M at Dec 31, 1.39M currently. Less than 10K subs in a month.
Luca - 1.08M at Dec 27, 1.08M currently. Less than 10K subs in a month.
Ren - 497K at Dec 1, 507K currently. 10K subs in two months.

There are a few outliers. Selen grew 18K subs in the last month and Pomu grew 25K subs in just over a month. Both have obvious circumstances that would explain these anomalies.

Now, what does this mean? For the regular viewer, I'd argue not much - just be happy if your oshi is still around and making content. However, if you're interested in Nijisanji EN as an overall business concern, and remaining separate from the JP side of Niji, I would be concerned about the overall lack of growth.

I am curious about what makes their huge community not gather around new talents, unlike HoloEN who destroys tresholds like they are nothing in their debut week. Is debuting talent number enough to explain it, or is there something that makes these Niji defenders not stand with their newer talents?

 

[White Stone]

Kaela admittedly hasn't participated in a fes yet though, isn't the coming one her first one? I am excited to see how she does though.

I don't remember if she was part of Summer Splash or not though.

She was part of Summer Splash Party but only as Live2D, so no dancing. She did however, fully participated in the New Year Coundown Live, though I don't remember how much dancing she did.

 

[Superduper Samurai]

I am curious about what makes their huge community not gather around new talents, unlike HoloEN who destroys tresholds like they are nothing in their debut week. Is debuting talent number enough to explain it, or is there something that makes these Niji defenders not stand with their newer talents?

Choice paralysis, already too many streamers in the company (HoloEN is 14.5, Fuwamoco share a channel while Niji is over 25) many have their niches or friend groups already, plus, not many events like covers lined up to generate some amount of buzz for their characters

HoloEN invests alot from its own inside hype/marketing and alot of resources in general to have covers and shit lined up, plus the lower amount of talent somewhat prevents dilution from already existing brands, and it seems like Holo just has a smidge better management, considering the times several advent members have spoken positively about them

Advent was also a stroke of hiring genius, two hardcore idolfags with a loyal PL and a success story (FWMC), singer turned vtuber with well known covers and also was open for being a bit more lewd (Nerissa) and two old guard EN vtubers (Shori and Bijou)

 

[Bronze]

Ayame outfit reveal is live for quite some time

 

[RestlessRain]

Gram Pico, of Phase Connect Japan: "Please teach me about Phase Connect"

Phase Connect viewers:

 

[frz]

Kaela admittedly hasn't participated in a fes yet though, isn't the coming one her first one? I am excited to see how she does though.

I don't remember if she was part of Summer Splash or not though.

She 3D debuted during the new year thing.
Her dancing pretty much was step to the left, step to the right, hand raise up, hand raised down.
They also paired her with okayu on purpose so the choreo is easy. Also rip mel.
I forgo but mumei exist and is even worse than both, she literally broke her legs walking down the stairs despite not being fat. The girl is made of paper
Mumei stood out a bit more because she's grouped with marine/botan/lamy, she literally walked around the stage while her group was dancing.
I'd expect the same thing for kaela during fes, she get a solo with her backseater song where she probs gonna stand still and sings like early polka. (Tbh early polka still moved around way more than kaela)
You get a point of reference with Hoshimatic Project how actually super exhausting real idol dancing is. Hololive group dancing are very minimal movement to accompany the 3D technology being bad, something that comes with pioneering a new tech. It's not until this year that it can actually accommodate people moving around. And orange woman still complain the shit out of it.
It gets really physical if you participate in every projects and dance your heart out like suisei/iroha. It's not if you choose not to.

 

[agility_]

I too, won't be satisfied until I see Kaela perform a triple somersault and pirouette whilst also singing Shiny Smily Story, within a ring of fire ala Siegfried and Roy.

 

[Tubedude]

I am curious about what makes their huge community not gather around new talents, unlike HoloEN who destroys tresholds like they are nothing in their debut week. Is debuting talent number enough to explain it, or is there something that makes these Niji defenders not stand with their newer talents?

Personally I think HoloEN's slower generation rollout is the major difference. HoloEN's slower schedule can make things feel stagnant and stale, especially when multiple talents are MIA for long periods, but it also leads to a lot more hype when a new gen hits.

NijiEN just kept pumping new gens out and kinda hit a fatigue. I was watching and largely enjoying NijiEN stuff in the first half of 2022, and just as I was getting comfortable with all the existing talents (at the time, NijiEN seemed to have a lot of impromptu collabs), NijiEN debuted ILUNA, and that gen did not keep the momentum going from the prior ones. Had ILUNA kept the good momentum going, there probably wouldn't be as much new gen fatigue, but since they kinda faceplanted at the start, it killed the momentum and it never recovered from that point on. Yugo's then Zaion's terminations drove the momentum from stagnant into a downwards direction, and here we are today, where things seemingly keep getting worse.

One could argue that Council's struggles as a gen compared to early Myth and now Advent was essentially Holo's ILUNA where things got stagnant for a while, but Holo rebounded from it, whereas Niji took more hits instead of rebounding, at least for now.

 

[Clem the Gem]

Ayame outfit reveal is live for quite some time

Nice, nice. I do like some casual wear. Probably my favourite type of outfit.

 

[White Stone]

Advent was also a stroke of hiring genius, two hardcore idolfags with a loyal PL and a success story (FWMC), singer turned vtuber with well known covers and also was open for being a bit more lewd (Nerissa) and two old guard EN vtubers (Shori and Bijou)

This reminds me. There were many complaints that it took too long for Advent to arrive, and even now I still see some people believing that they should have came much earlier (eg. a year earlier). But now that I think about it, if Advent did come much earlier, like in 2022, it would be a very different Advent from what we have gotten, if it is still called Advent that is. A lot of factors, such as the applicants, the filtering process, the interview process and the recruitment process would have been different back then. For example, we definitely wouldn't have gotten Fuwamoco since the GGN girls only graduated at November 2022.

Also, I wouldn't exactly call Bijou "old". Her PL started at May 2021, she had like 2 years of experience before joining HoloEN. In fact, she is probably the "freshest" hire within HoloEN, unless she had another PL before Waabyu that I'm not aware of.

 

[Scoots]

Kanata dropped a neat mech mmd

Also, I wouldn't exactly call Bijou "old". Her PL started at May 2021, she had like 2 years of experience before joining HoloEN. In fact, she is probably the "freshest" hire within HoloEN, unless she had another PL before Waabyu that I'm not aware of.

Yeah biboo specifically said that myth inspired her to apply but she got rejected because of a lack of experience so one can assume she debuted as Waabyu to get that experience

 

[Poyoyo & Jill]

Now that Nazuna its dead this family can be happy again

 

[Sky Shouter]

Clip tax to the League of Legends game collab

That thumbnail art you chose broke my brain for a second, I thought it was for some random corpo whose talents bore an uncanny resemblance to the Phase girls

Clip tax: Cover Corp has a rat infestation


Filian gets compared to a lego piece

Personally I think she looks more like 3623

 

[httn]

Move over Pippa a new Forrest critter is here to dethrone you for alt right hate speech

Another misogynist caught spreading hate speech.

---

Also found a clip of Sena being brown on the inside.

 

[frz]

I am curious about what makes their huge community not gather around new talents, unlike HoloEN who destroys tresholds like they are nothing in their debut week. Is debuting talent number enough to explain it, or is there something that makes these Niji defenders not stand with their newer talents?

While advent are impressive, they enjoyed the disappearance of Ame, Gura, Mumei, whose audience migrated over.
Niji doesn't really have the same thing. They do provide alot of graduations as their main content, those, however hardly transfer into other nijilivers' audience:
1. The graduatees debuted again as Vshojo members
2. The graduatees weren't pulling high 5 digit ccv like Gura does.
3. Infighting & segregation:
- Niji is uber divided, there's the golden 20 barrier, the male vs female barrier, the fujoshi barrier, etc. Even the talents themself form cliches.
As a new nijiEN talent, getting English audience to watch them is already hard, getting the JP audience to watch them is twice harder due to the cliche & oversaturation issues being way worse in NijiJP, even if you are a native Japanese such as kotoka/melocco.
- Even our two resident nijifans, faceless and scuddle hates each other.
- While I hate to use the phrase "hololive is one big family", the fanbase are not segregated at all (unless Stars) and are willing to watch other members/new debuts. FWMC easily farmed the holoJP audience just because they stream 40 minutes a day JST time while still speaking mostly english.
4. The graduations are so badly handled that it pissed off the graduatee's fanbase:
- Selen's situation quickly devolved into "dragoons vs Nijifans", showcasing how far and quickly niji fans are willing to throw each under other the bus and isolate the "troublemakers". When selen graduated, some will follow her to her next life, some will swear off nijisanji forever and only a small portion will transition into the next nijisanji liver. No doubt some actual dragoons are being hurt from their fellow "familia" shitting on them because Selen "stepped out of line".


Tfw you open the stream and all they talk about is Polka's new nendroid..... did they pull out the loli model and voices just to sell....
- Watching it from the beginning, there were only 2 guests this time, Aho-kuyu got hard bullied by Polka, Nodoka talked about getting a driver license but no car, did it for "confidence" also got the usual trolled experience for being in this show
- Also did a bit where fubuki pretends to die at the end.
- I'm noticing Polka has been streaming alot with Fubuki this year, seems like they got closer.
- Kept circling back into palworld. Addicts.
Edit: couldnt quote because fast delete, but for all the people bringing up nijiEN subs gain, please bring up holoEN as well.

 

[Tyrvalla]

It is so nice to hear someone enthusiastically explaining art

One could argue that Council's struggles as a gen compared to early Myth and now Advent was essentially Holo's ILUNA where things got stagnant for a while, but Holo rebounded from it, whereas Niji took more hits instead of rebounding, at least for now.

Well imo, Cover's alarm is blaring when NijiEN debuted, which means their competitor is also actively looking for untapped EN talents. Cover might be lucky on their first wave, getting diamonds. But what if Niji the one who found diamonds next?

And after seeing what happened to Council growth and comparing them to NijiEN growth, they started to slow down and revamping their approach.

Again Hololive is incredibly lucky to have Coco, without her and her urging on creating a brand new EN branch, Myth would not exist in its current form.

Edit: Also who remembers when HoloEN started announcing auditions are open and Nijisanji in a knee jerk reaction renames NijiIN to NijiEN?

I'm still not completely sure about this. The audition for HoloEN started 4 months after Coco's debut, a little too short of a time for her to exert her influence. Did Coco actually admitted to pushing for HoloEN? The only thing I remember her doing was the HoloUSA parody video she did.

Yeah the "Coco pushed HoloEN" narrative has a lot against it
I also think if it was for Coco they would have created a HoloUSA instead because at the time every single branch had a single country in it (ID,CN,JP,ETC.)

Hmmm, maybe you are right, it has been a long time ago.

 

[White Stone]

Again Hololive is incredibly lucky to have Coco, without her and her urging on creating a brand new EN branch, Myth would not exist in its current form.

I'm still not completely sure about this. The audition for HoloEN started 4 months after Coco's debut, a little too short of a time for her to exert her influence. Did Coco actually admitted to pushing for HoloEN? The only thing I remember her doing was the HoloUSA parody video she did.

 

[Poyoyo & Jill]

It is so nice to hear someone enthusiastically explaining art


Well imo, Cover's alarm is blaring when NijiEN debuted, which means their competitor is also actively looking for untapped EN talents. Cover might be lucky on their first wave, getting diamonds. But what if Niji the one who found diamonds next?

And after seeing what happened to Council growth and comparing them to NijiEN growth, they started to slow down and revamping their approach.

Again Hololive is incredibly lucky to have Coco, without her and her urging on creating a brand new EN branch, Myth would not exist in its current form.

Edit: Also who remembers when HoloEN started announcing auditions are open and Nijisanji in a knee jerk reaction renames NijiIN to NijiEN?

I'm still not completely sure about this. The audition for HoloEN started 4 months after Coco's debut, a little too short of a time for her to exert her influence. Did Coco actually admitted to pushing for HoloEN? The only thing I remember her doing was the HoloUSA parody video she did.

Yeah the "Coco pushed HoloEN" narrative has a lot against it
I also think if it was for Coco they would have created a HoloUSA instead because at the time every single branch had a single country in it (ID,CN,JP,ETC.)