General Thread v3: The Hexagone

VSoyBoy · Oct 18, 2024

Sky Shouter said:
Okay, this "Filian is a thief" arc is getting really weird

"Fillianne" popped up on my timeline, and it's literally just someone impersonating Filian, only without pants
View attachment 80871
View attachment 80872

Hell, this person is even using Filian's tags
View attachment 80873
(Link is NSFW, it's basically just Filian's model flashbanging the viewer, but instead of recoiling in horror like the real Filian does, this one is posing like a )

No stream links, no profile besides twitter, and only 200 followers, I'm not really sure what their end goal is here

Speaking about Filian:
When is she getting her own model? The goodsmile debacle (which shouldn't even be the main impetus for getting her own) was over three months ago. Even the best 3D modelers will not take more than two months to finish a model. What's the hold-up?

I can't imagine her business partners being happy with having to push back product launches (or cancelling them outright) because she can't get a move on.

Bronze · Oct 18, 2024

Katta's going on a hiatus until her departure from Idol

Tubedude · Oct 18, 2024

VSoyBoy said:
Even the best 3D modelers will not take more than two months to finish a model. What's the hold-up?

Filian had an AI art tag for some time so it would not be surprising if modelers are keeping their distance (especially the twitter-brained ones, or those that want to keep some twitter brained friends). Kirsche also had massive issues getting a new model from the one she used for years. Admittedly this is Filian we're talking about so the delay is likely her own fault somehow, but there are reasons why it might not be.

Banana Hammock · Oct 18, 2024

VSoyBoy said:
Speaking about Filian:
When is she getting her own model? The goodsmile debacle (which shouldn't even be the main impetus for getting her own) was over three months ago. Even the best 3D modelers will not take more than two months to finish a model. What's the hold-up?

I can't imagine her business partners being happy with having to push back product launches (or cancelling them outright) because she can't get a move on.

Why would she? She doesn't need permission to use it, just to make merch of it.

Going a step further, the terms of use state that for any activities with a larger commercial potential, such as the production of character products, beyond typical VTuber activities such as video and streaming, advance notice is required, and guidance regarding credit notification is provided after review.

Usually, they are not that large in scale, and in many cases the VTuber personally handles the production and sales without going through a company, so selling this type of character merchandise is not really an issue.

However, if there are individuals who have agencies or companies or corporations that use the images, we will provide them with detailed information and advance notice even if the use is not for commercial purposes.

The part I took issue with was that even though the VTuber does not own the copyright to the character, the project was carried out through a contract with a company without any notification to the original character's creator.

Helkar · Oct 18, 2024

Bronze said:
Katta's going on a hiatus until her departure from Idol

Could probably be connected to this

VSoyBoy · Oct 18, 2024

Banana Hammock said:
Why would she? She doesn't need permission to use it, just to make merch of it.

Are you serious? Why doesn't every VTuber just use an off the shelf model then? Why did Vedal get a new model for Neuro? You say that like merch is a trivial part of the VTuber business.

Reason 1

Reason 2

kushami tasukaru · Oct 18, 2024

Figaro singing at 4.30PM JST.

She will be singing first in a "Healing Vtuber" relay hosted by MunMosh tomorrow as well.

Yamagami Karuta with a new outfit at 7PM JST for her fifth anniversary.

She's one of the few who updated her lore, starting as a Tengu apprentice and around a year ago "graduated" to become a full fledged Tengu.

Shioriha Ruri also continuing FFX at 7PM JST.

The NTR scene should be close.

Suisei visiting an indie VSinger who got featured in the Next section of Vtuber Singing King.

RestlessRain · Oct 18, 2024

Hina's back tomorrow:

Kazuma · Oct 18, 2024

RestlessRain said:
Jelly on the telly (in five minutes):

Jelly's forehead :sanasmile:

RestlessRain · Oct 18, 2024

Kazuma said:
Jelly's forehead

frz · Oct 18, 2024

VSoyBoy said:
Are you serious? Why doesn't every VTuber just use an off the shelf model then? Why did Vedal get a new model for Neuro? You say that like merch is a trivial part of the VTuber business.

Because you will have to pay the creator royalty and be afraid of onlyfans impersonations like Filliane up there.
The smart move is invest in new model and you will gain much more money than you put in.

Filian is a dumbass and still wanted to keep using the model even if it means sharing revenue with the author. But the author is fucking pissed because they didn't even know Filian existed, she even fucking admitted on stream that she pirated the model and never paid for it.

Filian might be biding her time until the author stop being pissed and will eventually accept her money. Not everyone can just turn down money like Kay yu after all. But who knows

TKN_Lurker · Oct 18, 2024

Fuwamoco's 1st ASMR voice pack got announced. Sale starts on the 19th.

Security · Oct 18, 2024

shipmate_F said:
I agree with you, but you're missing the point. I get the schadenfreude, the US "voice acting" industry is a scam through and through commanded by mean girls and jocks that love to touch their fans, but this isn't about them, it's about making sure things are done in the right way.
My concern is that models are built without the awareness of the VAs and many times using the dead's work, it's just unethical. If you show that the person in question licensed their work and said "hey, they used only my stuff here and I got paid for it" no one would bat an eye - I guarantee you those western vultures would, but that'd be bad optics for them for ganging up on a smaller worker.
View attachment 80870
No mention to whoever was fed to the model or their process using it in Liars Bar description.

AI is an amazing tool for a lot of things but if you don't think this is a messy way to move forward as it's being used to replace live art I don't know what to tell you.
As another user pointed out, they could use the devs voice instead, high chance of becoming good memes. People forget a lot of Half Life quotes are from devs fucking around.

Nah.

To be honest with you, this all sounds like some cope. Is it out of fear for the future, and how technology continues to dehumanize us? Is it a desire for the continuation of artistic craftsmanship, with the view that it will be lost, at the very least, to a great extent? Is it a bleeding heart for all the people with soon-to-be obsolete skills? I don't know, but it sure is cope.

There is no "right way" in advancement in technology: it merely comes. To claim its current use is "unethical" is just, like, your opinion, man. In my view, Machine Learning is no different than an artist learning how to paint by observing another's brush strokes, or a musician watching how Eddie Van Halen strums his guitar, or someone in theater listening intently to how a maestro performs with his voice. It's just now being done by a computer.

Advancements in any field is "messy." So what? The biggest argument here would be in the political-economical realm of planned economy, which itself a whole 'nother topic. It isn't automatically an "ethical" issue, so hard as you might push it as. The biggest would be legal, and that is a fascinating question that will soon be tested. But I'm sensing something more on the grounds "moral," that can not be defeated by arguments of "work"; that I could present that an AI company could hire artists to draw a lot, and a lot in many other artists' styles, as many are good at doing; to hire voice actors to speak a lot, in a lot of different ways, and to imitate - with great accuracy - famous people, living and dead; to perform music in all manner of genres, and in styles so exact to be indistinguishable from the musical acts they're imitating. In all ways it wouldn't use, in any capacity, the work of the artists, the voice actors, or musicians, but the end result would be the same - and I think your position would still be the same.

So again, I call out your cope.

Zizara · Oct 18, 2024

Nenélove said:
Considering there's been absolutely no talk about this anywhere in the Vtuber sphere, obviously absent.

In other news:

Jacksfilms calling out filian lol, wtf is this timeline
I hate fleshoids sticking their filthy mugs into vtubing but also, reactslop needs to die and idk why it infiltrated vtubing or why anyone let it. In conclusion: I hate everyone involved.

Pippers... playing defense for filian won't get you vtuber of the year in the awards gurl

I can't wait for Filian to completely ignore this and for it to go nowhere like every other drama she's been caught up in

Sky Shouter said:
Okay, this "Filian is a thief" arc is getting really weird

"Fillianne" popped up on my timeline, and it's literally just someone impersonating Filian, only without pants
View attachment 80871
View attachment 80872

Hell, this person is even using Filian's tags
View attachment 80873
(Link is NSFW, it's basically just Filian's model flashbanging the viewer, but instead of recoiling in horror like the real Filian does, this one is posing like a )

No stream links, no profile besides twitter, and only 200 followers, I'm not really sure what their end goal is here

Speaking of, this has the air of someone still seething about the model controversy to me.

agility_ · Oct 18, 2024

Security said:
To be honest with you, this all sounds like some cope. Is it out of fear for the future, and how technology continues to dehumanize us? Is it a desire for the continuation of artistic craftsmanship, with the view that it will be lost, at the very least, to a great extent? Is it a bleeding heart for all the people with soon-to-be obsolete skills? I don't know, but it sure is cope.

There is no "right way" in advancement in technology: it merely comes. To claim its current use is "unethical" is just, like, your opinion, man. In my view, Machine Learning is no different than an artist learning how to paint by observing another's brush strokes, or a musician watching how Eddie Van Halen strums his guitar, or someone in theater listening intently to how a maestro performs with his voice. It's just now being done by a computer.

Advancements in any field is "messy." So what? The biggest argument here would be in the political-economical realm of planned economy, which itself a whole 'nother topic. It isn't automatically an "ethical" issue, so hard as you might push it as. The biggest would be legal, and that is a fascinating question that will soon be tested. But I'm sensing something more on the grounds "moral," that can not be defeated by arguments of "work"; that I could present that an AI company could hire artists to draw a lot, and a lot in many other artists' styles, as many are good at doing; to hire voice actors to speak a lot, in a lot of different ways, and to imitate - with great accuracy - famous people, living and dead; to perform music in all manner of genres, and in styles so exact to be indistinguishable from the musical acts they're imitating. In all ways it wouldn't use, in any capacity, the work of the artists, the voice actors, or musicians, but the end result would be the same - and I think your position would still be the same.

So again, I call out your cope.

Both of you are completely ignoring the fact that marketers will still be demanding studios to overpay hollywood "celebrities" to sell on brand recognition for voice acting. AI is only deleting the upfront value of having to pay real voice actors for their job.
I tire of this back and forth between the techbros and the artsy-friends. One band wants to "hurr own dem libs hurr" and the other wants to radicalize and unionize their cabal of pearl-clutchers. The end result is the same, another field of work admonished not by the human necessity to advance technology, but by the greed drive of large entertainment studios. This shit isn't like the invention of the gasoline engine taking away jobs from coach builders and horse breeders.

Security · Oct 18, 2024

agility_ said:
Both of you are completely ignoring the fact that marketers will still be demanding studios to overpay hollywood "celebrities" to sell on brand recognition for voice acting. AI is only deleting the upfront value of having to pay real voice actors for their job.
I tire of this back and forth between the techbros and the artsy-friends. One band wants to "hurr own dem libs hurr" and the other wants to radicalize and unionize their cabal of pearl-clutchers. The end result is the same, another field of work admonished not by the human necessity to advance technology, but by the greed drive of large entertainment studios. This shit isn't like the invention of the gasoline engine taking away jobs from coach builders and horse breeders.

I mostly agree, but counter with: dude, have you messed around with art and voice and music AI generators? That shit is fun.

Limkin · Oct 18, 2024

agility_ said:
Both of you are completely ignoring the fact that marketers will still be demanding studios to overpay hollywood "celebrities" to sell on brand recognition for voice acting. AI is only deleting the upfront value of having to pay real voice actors for their job.
I tire of this back and forth between the techbros and the artsy-friends. One band wants to "hurr own dem libs hurr" and the other wants to radicalize and unionize their cabal of pearl-clutchers. The end result is the same, another field of work admonished not by the human necessity to advance technology, but by the greed drive of large entertainment studios. This shit isn't like the invention of the gasoline engine taking away jobs from coach builders and horse breeders.

I just dislike the hypocrisy of people who were driving away young talent, afraid that they will replace them in the future because of being more talented, who are now being mad that someone is trying to replace them directly, and they aren't even that great to begin with. It is quite impressive how people who, on fundamental level, I agree with, had managed to make me not want to support them at all. If any of this english VAs spent the last 5 years training their asses off instead of seething on social media about random nonsense and trying to shove their political agenda into anime changing the subs they were provided with and ruining the show, then maybe they would be able to come up with a dub that isn't total dogshit and had some modicum of respect from anime fans. As it is - I don't care what spearheaded it, maybe having a fire lit under their butt will finally make them do something

tarkanoltr · Oct 18, 2024

Lui is running a cross-branch tournament tomorrow (although the only participant that is overseas is Kaela & Ollie, lol):

The Proctor · Oct 18, 2024

agility_ said:
This shit isn't like the invention of the gasoline engine taking away jobs from coach builders and horse breeders.

This is a shamelessly pedantic point to make, but there's a lot of literature from the late 19th and very early 20th centuries about the appalling conditions horses had to endure as a mass-produced commodity utilized on an industrial scale. A big thing about automation was that it eliminated an industry that essentially tortured millions of highly intelligent living creatures to death and then minced up their bodies as cheap foodstock and glue at the end of it all.

Obviously artists and musicians aren't literally being worked to death and then turned into glue (though frankly given how entitled and miserable some of them are, I wouldn't be writing the artists equivalent of Black Beauty to try and save them even if they were...) but even before A.I, only 0.1% of artists at best were ever turning it into a career. Thousands of others were making pennies working on fiverr churning out slop. Art has always been about marketing more than it has been about results; the people at the top will still make a perfectly good living selling art 'by so-and-so', but there'll be less exploitation of smaller artists due to the proliferation of A.I.

shipmate_F · Oct 18, 2024

agility_ said:
Both of you are completely ignoring the fact that marketers will still be demanding studios to overpay hollywood "celebrities" to sell on brand recognition for voice acting. AI is only deleting the upfront value of having to pay real voice actors for their job.
I tire of this back and forth between the techbros and the artsy-friends. One band wants to "hurr own dem libs hurr" and the other wants to radicalize and unionize their cabal of pearl-clutchers. The end result is the same, another field of work admonished not by the human necessity to advance technology, but by the greed drive of large entertainment studios. This shit isn't like the invention of the gasoline engine taking away jobs from coach builders and horse breeders.

That is another hydra to beat and not exclusive to Hollywood. I'm an artfag and I get the "artist make their own price" but I feel repulse watching overpricing fags while the majority of artists/editors have to undercut to get anything commissioned from them. In the end it kills the bottom-to-middle creators while letting the top be comfortable for life because of said brand recognition; it stops upcoming competition because there's no reason to try to go for it now that the machine will mimic the highly-demanded style and churn out heaps of slop for low-end customers - all that time that you could be working on that slop that will inherently polish your skill from practice and experience, is now spent on a day job to make ends meet.
I do get that it's "sucks to suck" and it's just a moral or optimistic takeaway from the situation, but after centuries of exploitation from the toxic oil paints, the comic sweatshops and the slavery-esque plushie factories you'd expect we could do better at treating people like people and not just labor to take away from.
Anyway, it gets too political I'll just watch the funny cartoon women.

Brown SEA sisters making Turon and Bananaque (I have no idea what these are)

Literal trash is sickly alive, playing some Hypnospace Outlaw

I have made an announcement about my plans for EoY-2024/2025. This includes a call for volunteers. Please read here.

General Thread v3: The Hexagone

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