We now have three former EN Hololivers being discussed here, feels a little surreal to say the least. Did anyone ever predict Gura being a topic here?
"Wait Greece is actually a country? Is this a country??"Etna Crimson
Large Indie Vtuber General
- Thread starter The Proctor
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As soon as she announced her graduation, it was inevitable (unless she left vtubing for good and never reappeared).
Yes, it was bound to happen eventually.
And SanaBeatani
Konbakuwa. Hey, this isn't Elden Ring but she was thinking about it.
She has been very husky sounding, prone to some rough voice breaks and so on now that she's pointed it out. Currently talking about taking it real easy for the next 3 months to recover.
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Damn 3 months is rough
It's kind of amusing to me how the only liggers who really get discussed on this forum are ex-corpos. It's not really a surprise since growing as an indie usually involves some kind of trashy pandering and being involved with annoying Twitch faggots, but the fact I had to go back through ten days' worth of posts in this thread to find a post about someone who was never in Hololive or Nijisanji just spotlights the absurdity of it.
The result of this forum being purely Youtube-centric. Is there a single EN Youtube indie that's made it to high 3-view status without going through a corpo first? Nevermind 4-view. Even disregarding the ex-Holos and Nijis the only ones that come to mind with those noombas are Nene Amano and Rin Penrose, or Miori Celesta and Kanna who barely tread around a 400-600 CCV average. All of them are still ex-corpo.
On the other hand you have a ton of non-coomerbaiting Twitch indies. Ellie Minibot is at 1.2k average and inclining, Grimmi is at 1.6k, Fishman just poached marimari and Clio who reached similar numbers, all of them just from organic growth. People here can think that Twitch culture is a garbage fire and dislike even dual streaming as much as they want, the reality is that discoverability on Youtube is fucking ass and not beginning your vtubing career on Twitch is like shooting yourself in the foot with a grenade launcher at the beginning of the race.
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YT kills a channel that doesn't pop off, so it's really hard to grow CCV on YT. There's a lot of indies doing good numbers on Twitch.
Being honest, YT does show really low CCV streams and really low view videos on the side, take this one as an example, right now I'm watching IRyS playing Clair obscur and on the side is this:
I don't know who this is and I don't watch gacha shit but it's on the side of the current stream and it only has 37 views right now, or this stream:
I don't know who this is either and the stream only has 15 CCV right now and it doesn't have anything to do with IRyS.
YT does show low view things, however why would I click on the stream or videos if I don't care about the topic or don't know who the cannel owner is? the same would happen if I would be using twitch because there's zero reason for me to click on something I don't care about, if anything the blame is on the channel owner as they don't really have anything note worthy on the thumbnail or title that tells me why I should bother clicking on the stream or video.
I'm not saying they should clickbait since that would make me click on don't recommend this channel instantly but the content creators should consider what they play or stream since not everyone cares about really obscure shit or gacha, which for VTubers it means not everyone clicks on things blindly and placing their model on the thumbnail can be very important to catch people's attention and maybe snatch a viewer or two in the process. so saying YT doesn't promote channels is quite far from the truth since the issue comes down to preference.
There's literally no reason not to stream on both now, but Twitch's success is a mixed bag and if I were to pick one to favor over the other it would be YouTube. Twitch at low numbers is the wagiecuck of streaming: you go live, you do your hours, you get sustainable views, then you clock off and the world forgets about you, repeat. The endgame isn't appealing either if you ask me, but we'll get to that later. Twitch doesn't cultivate an online presence like YouTube does at smaller numbers, I find people with a dedicated YouTube following are discussed way more than twitch peers at similar numbers, sometimes even versus larger twitch streamers.
In short, there's a much higher relevance-to-performance ratio.
Here's an example where numbers mean nothing outside the ecosystem:
Pumpkin Potion is a vtuber whose got great numbers, a constant flow of guests, a unique appeal in vtubing and a well-performing YouTube video channel, no dramas from what I can find, shows up at conventions and has been active for 4 years with a prior history in online entertainment going back ten years. 100k followers, 6000+ members in her discord, 1500 twitch subs, averaging 200k views on her shorts, great numbers.
I've seen her discussed ONCE in my five years of being terminally online with this shit.
A cursory search on here doesn't do her any favors; 2 page results on here, half of them are just Hololive summaries with matching keywords, and a few others just being collab associations. You can't brush it off as this forum as just being YouTube focused either, as I see a good amount of twitch channel drops on here, one could reasonably assume she would have gotten some general mentions with those numbers, right? Maybe elsewhere? Not really, we'll get to that in a bit, but let's compare her to someone much smaller.
Yuno Nightingale, basically an ant by comparison, has more than double the search results on TVA and she's been talked about enough online that I can remember her and her niche without seeing a single one of her streams. I'm not delusional enough to say that makes her more famous but it's a testament to the impact the platform has when a low 2view can get more consistent presence. Amiya Aranha occupies the same niche and is widely considered an indie darling, and the gap between Nightingale and Amiya is vastly smaller than the one with Pumpkin which makes relevancy a more reasonable objective (Amiya is omni-talented though, so Onolumi may be a fairer comparison, she still has presence too).
To help counter my viewing bias I looked for Pumpkin Potion to see how often she's brought up:
- Reddit she has 26 results across 4 years in r/virtualyoutubers, Amiya has around 99 in the same timespan, Yuno has 2 results in 1 year. Out of interest, I searched Tomoe Umari too as she approaching 100k like PP (go sub btw) and she has over 30 results.
- Warosu, she's only ever had 5 OPs, and less than a hundred posts directly referencing her
- I compared pumpkinpotion and amiyaaranha on twitter, sorted by latest; after a few scrolls on pumpkin it knocks me back into early May. With Ami I can scroll a fair bit and still see post engagements in the last 24 hours
My scientific conclusion: every twitch viewer is only worth 1/10th a YouTube viewer.
The reality is that most smaller vtubers on both platforms face a long grind and should take every advantage they can get if they're serious about vtubing. It ultimately boils down to algo luck or a viral moment to skyrocket, the key difference is that grinding on YouTube builds up a portfolio and if they have a boom they will be associated to the niche they care about, whilst climbing up the ladder on twitch will slowly force them to orbit a hegemony of meangirl cliques and VRchat fugitives since that's largely what the upper echelon of twitchtuber peers consist of.
Another issue if you're chasing Twitch fame: your audience is likely to be tuned into the platform's zeitgeist and through that the bigger content creator's shit is going to roll downhill onto your lap and before you know it you're reacting to Assmangold's reactions, adapting your language to the current netslop lingo, commenting on vtuber drama that doesn't involve you, and eventually your channel will become just as homogenously online as everyone else that hits a certain peak. This is what I meant earlier by the twitch endgame being a dogshit prospect. Even Dooby brushed against the Sinder drama. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.
If living off streaming is your goal then like I said earlier, Twitch is the wagiecuck of vtubing, you'll get better results, but if your goal is to be known for something and actually matter, put effort into Youtube.
Next time you see someone flaunting about a vtuber's discoverability and numbers on Twitch, ask yourself: do you also find yourself thinking "Literally Who?"
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