I am going to do an end-of-year stream on the 30th of December. If anyone would like to make a nice thumbnail for it, DM me. I can pay in a free title, advertisement, or filthy lucre - I can actually do this now as PayPal has finally recognized my business account.
As we head in 2025, TVA's rules have been updated and clarified after extensive consultation with various users. These updates are designed to make it more obvious how staff conduct business and make our standards of behaviour abundantly clear to guests interested in signing up.
After reading that I slightly feel better for not posting one of the Phase girl's email.
Amiya has been crying for the past 1520 30 minutes. I just want to give her a big hug. Basically impostor syndrome and opening up about not usually fitting in or having a hard time making friends.
Kanpainki are having a meltdown with recent announcement on the PCD. This comes from Tenma about doing stuff less on discord, but unclear if fishman also wants her to interact with people less on the discord too. View attachment 5039
Edit:
The fans are the ones that fund the whole thing. Why the fuck would Fishman try to kill something that is specifically for the fans? I understand some concerns of talents getting too close to fans but this seems absurd. He really seems to be huffing the "idol" thing a bit too hard. Inb4 all of this is him being overprotective to avoid some sort of VeraVee situation.
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Really scraping the barrel there if they're having to resort to those kind of vtubers...
Hm. I really can't say the stuff obtained underhandedly is really worth having. Evidence obtained illegally is still illegal. If you couldn't use it in court, it's not worth sharing here. Besides, when is any of that going to be "relevant" in this case unless the person actually is a genuine lolcow? It feels wrong.
I suppose if more people here feel the stuff obtained "underhandedly" is fine, then whatever. Just be aware obtaining it that way is putting yourself at risk of legal action, y'know? I don't want people blatantly breaking the law just to effectively give antis fuel to harass, especially when these people aren't even lolcows. Having dox on site for innocents is asking for a lawsuit sooner or later.
Honestly looking up vtuber's info via leaks and shit makes you more of a lolcow than the actual chuuba, but i don't think it's a good idea trying to ban that stuff, just don't encourage people to go that far and keep that info in a private section so that this site doesn't become some copy of that jap doxxsite with a bunch of tards coming over to spaz out over their oshi's personal life and organize hate brigades.
Honestly looking up vtuber's info via leaks and shit makes you more of a lolcow than the actual chuuba, but i don't think it's a good idea trying to ban that stuff, just don't encourage people to go that far and keep that info in a private section so that this site doesn't become some copy of that jap doxxsite with a bunch of tards coming over to spaz out over their oshi's personal life and organize hate brigades.
Yeah, this is basically how I feel. I really just don't want this to turn into the spot for antis and schizos to get their info on the talents just so they can go insane and try to search for them.
Button was never that fat, you guys are just being dickful dicks
Also no, she's a tremendously japanese-looking hag. The reason her eyes look funky is due to filters, which japanese law demands all females to use somehow View attachment 5034
Botan is big for Japanese standards, same with Okayu. The only truely fat one I have seen is Matsuri's younger photos. Now, she looks fine but her and Chaama are chasing some specific number.
Maybe Polka too, her PoLegand assistant is a bit overweight but I am far more impressed with her being willing to be on camera then anything - she isn't even the talent!
Kanpainki are having a meltdown with recent announcement on the PCD. This comes from Tenma about doing stuff less on discord, but unclear if fishman also wants her to interact with people less on the discord too. View attachment 5039
Edit:
Lol did Tenma just use her fanbase to get fishman to turn things around? View attachment 5040
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Tenma has the highest quality of membership content that I thought her original $6.99 basic tier was on purpose and a steal. I have no idea why PC has these blanket rule sets but I would put my money on not having more managers.
I have to agree. Hell, on the Farms I saw Lester Jones posted a colossal dox of what I think was Lia and the whole thing seemed like an absolute dick move. Worse that no one really called the guy out on it. It's one thing to dig that deep on someone like the Zoosadists if you're trying to track them down, but doing that to a girl who just wants to entertain people with a separate identity/character just makes you a psychopath as far as I'm concerned.
For better or worse not everyone has "personal" ethics like you. Still, Lia has had quite a long time to clean up her profiles. I gotta think she just doesn't care at this point.
Yeah, this is basically how I feel. I really just don't want this to turn into the spot for antis and schizos to get their info on the talents just so they can go insane and try to search for them.
That's a fair point. I'd like to think a combination of a registration wall and the culture here could filter out some of the more obnoxious people but it's something to think about as the forum grows. I just know that the other extreme is /vt/ where anything even remotely resembling doxing is banned so bad actors are free to vaguepost to skirt the rules and spread whatever rumours they please, because debunking it with evidence is "doxing".
Ultimately it's up to @The Proctor on how he wants to handle this and I suppose he or potential future moderators making a call on a case-by-case basis would probably be the most sustainable position, I just feel bringing up unethically republished information can be a necessary evil in some specific situations is all.
So first here's a term to help make this easier to understand and show what I'm looking at.
"YoY" stands for "Year over Year" it is a percentage change from one year to the next, it is intended to be used to observe radical changes in operating income line items so you can ask why these things happened. These are percentages in decimal format, so 120.3 is 120.3% so we're not confused.
It is worth noting that this is an income statement, and not a balance sheet, so we can't determine much in terms of assets or liabilities from this data. This is used to determine how much money was made/lost and how much of these values comes from what sectors (merchandise, administrative/"general business" expenses, commissioning, etc) and trying to use these numbers to ask what we're doing right and wrong. This is the type of end of year data you look at when you ask what you can cut back or improve on to improve overall profitability.
The first thing I'm getting from all of this is something is missing, or at least not very obvious to me. Their is no outright stated SC or talent generated revenue here, or at least it isn't obvious where it is and how much of it is from that source, the top section with all the sales and expenses appears to me primarily focused on merchandise. How do I know this? Look at the revenue and cost items at the top.
"Amount of Sales" This speaks for itself
"Commodity Inventory at beginning of the period." This is starting inventory, aka the amount of at-cost (most likely) merchandise Cover has in a warehouse somewhere.
"Purchases of Products, etc for current period." This is new inventory generated to meet demands for the year.
"Inventory of merchandise at end of the period" This is obviously the ending inventory that you have remaining, the reason why it is a negative number is so you know how much you have to remove from the "cost of sales" number to ensure you aren't counting inventory you haven't even sold yet.
These are all expense accounts focused on the merchandise, not the talents.
Now you could put the salary expense for the talents somewhere in the SEA section right below gross profit, which if it is there I presume it is under the "Misc wages/staff salary" if it is there as executive compensation is at the top. This is usually used for mostly small and irrelevant values that you can't categorize in the usual line items for one reason or another, it is like a footnote account which is strange when talking about the most direct of your talent's expenses.
I presume Cover doesn't think the talent's salary matters enough to make it a more direct and in your face line item, or it is just purposefully vague and they have some internal analysis for this stuff that isn't visible in this (what I presume) public investor focused statement. Most investors likely don't give a shit about this detail so Cover might have just not bothered trying to calculate it very well for investor purposes. It is a waste of time for the accounting department and the auditors to ensure these numbers are correct as they might just be too small in the grand scheme of things.
For the record, "Salary allowance" is not actually a salary per say, it is an amount of money specifically stored to meet non-direct monetary benefits to an employee's salary. This could be stuff like medical stuff, internal discounts, or recompensation for things like gas or whatever that aren't technically part of the base salary you get, so if you get 50k salary and you get your gas covered your part in this pie is 50k salary expense + XXX salary allowance of whatever your gas was. So this has little to do with the talents probably.
Now the best assumption I can make is that "Ordinary income" is the SC based revenue. Because this revenue, unlike merchandise revenue has no direct cost factor to it like merchandise and it is obviously common enough to be considered "Ordinary".
What do I mean by no direct cost factor? If you sell the Totally Coming Soon Magni Dezmond Fursuit when Magni eventually becomes the first official Holopro VFurry, you can track the revenue to a bunch of cost items like materials, labor, and your dignity and then determine how much profit you make from each sale.
It is harder to do that with SCs because it has no direct cost factor that is consistent, Magni could buy every single Sims 4 DLC and get less SC revenue that stream then he did when he started playing Sims 4, while Vesper can talk about his adventures in Magni's fur dungeon and the Target shrine in his closet for free and get a huge surge of SCs compared to his other streams.
So unfortunately it is hard for me, as an outsider to this industry from a business perspective, to confidently say what this says in regards to the talents.
The biggest takeaway I'd say is that Cover is becoming less efficient likely due to their sudden surge in 2020 making them able to achieve more with less the first two periods, while needing to maintain that momentum by spending more yet the momentum is clearly dying so they don't generate the same kind of returns for their costs incurred. March 2022's statement shows a (very small, literally .4% difference) negative difference in net income despite the 100%+ improve in revenues up top as they spent a higher percentage in generating new merchandise. Commissions paid is also through the roof as it is over 100 times bigger going from the 2021 period to the 2022 period, which I presume is from them trying to make new costumes, 3D models, assets, and whatever else for their growing portfolio of talents.
tl;dr:
It is effectively impossible to use this data alone to determine much about the talents themselves, especially specific ones, as most the line items are talking about merchandise and boring business shit. Salaries, if they exist as I know that's become a debate on and off here, are in some small account that is barely talked about. This is likely because investors don't give a shit about this as much as we might care about it.
Cover is clearly spending a lot more on all the talents while not getting the same amount of return on investment back as despite their growth they actually have very slightly worse net-income overall going from 2021 period to the 2022 period (Remember these periods end in March, so a ton of year is left). This is likely due to needing to support more of them but not all of them give the same kind of returns for obvious reasons. 2021 period was also when Myth took the world by storm, so the huge differences has to also be considered with the events that actually happened.
I will also note that it wasn't until the 2022 period that Research and Development expenses show up, I can't quite guess what this could be related towards. Perhaps it has something to do with the 3D concerts or something like that, I can't say for sure as I'm not fully aware of the timeline of what Cover has made internally (instead of just buying it from someone else) that could correlate to this. If anyone wants to guess, remember this is for the time period of April 2021 through the end of March 2022.
I hope his has been informative and that I didn't miss anything, their is a lot to comb over with all these line items across three periods. I'm going to now become like Dingo Aniki now after typing all this autism for the last hour.
Hi friend, I have been tracking this stuff for multiple years now and I'm pretty sure Cover includes talent income and expenditure under Amount of Sales and Cost of Sales respectively, as if it were a direct commission or expense to obtain that revenue specifically.
I know this is a little unusual as often even commissions are accounted for in operating expenses, but I've spreadsheeted it out and that is the only place that makes sense. If you account for SC income (tracked by Playboard), minus YT's known cut of 30%, and a reasonably low estimate of YT ad income, and completely ignore memberships, the only place the income can possibly be tracked is in sales. I am less sure about the talent cut but feel fairly confident it should be in cost of sales, as there is no way to split the money from an Adsense account, which is how YT pays out. If they do ignore talent cut accounting-wise and just pay out without accounting for it, it raises some questions to me, given that Moona has said on stream she gets 50% of all YT-related revenue. That would mean we're ignoring the payout of 1-2 billion yen on the income statement entirely, which I find unlikely.
Likewise, Anycolor is a public company and they without a doubt list all YT income in their sales and all talent cut in their cost of sales. They break this down and say that Google is one of their top 3 customers, and the amount of sales to that customer lines up fairly well with the amount of SC + estimated adsense + some more. This amount is 3.6 billion yen, a full 25% of their sales, so it is not some small ignorable amount. Based on estimated SC and views, Cover would be more than this. Anycolor also says this:
Of the three revenues in the domestic live streaming domain, Super Chat revenue and YouTube membership revenue are received net amounts after deducting commissions to Google LLC. and the total amount of YouTube membership revenue are recorded, and the commission to Google LLC is recorded as an expense. Regarding Google AdSense revenue, the amount received from Google LLC (net amount) is recorded as revenue. In addition, we will pay a portion of the revenue earned from each VTuber's YouTube channel to the river.
Wonky machine translation aside, it is clear that they account for the associated expense as thoroughly as they can (Google does not inform you what their cut of Ad revenue is exactly, but does say what their SC and membership cut is).
I don't have my spreadsheets on this computer but that income statement image from /#/ was mine originally, I will attach the balance sheet and Anycolor's year-end (translated), e: plus translations of excerpts from their year-end. If you want the Japanese originals I have them too but translating was a chore even using mtl.
e: For anyone else browsing this, please understand on Anycolor's customer breakdown that Sony Music Solutions Inc. run the Anycolor store and Pixiv run Booth, so both are merch. It's not music and art. It's merch.
Kanpainki are having a meltdown with recent announcement on the PCD. This comes from Tenma about doing stuff less on discord, but unclear if fishman also wants her to interact with people less on the discord too. View attachment 5039
Edit:
Fish man is such a bitch nigga, I almost feel pity for him.
As of writing of this there are 113 kanpainiki's in that server. Making a bad decision is one thing, but to cave in the moment 100 retards start "rioting" ... Then again I shouldn't expect much, after all, a few screaming buffalo bill clones were the reason why this place had to be created.
I personally find doxing beyond what's necessary for the discussion like the Lia/Pippa posts to be in bad taste, it's invasive on a level beyond just dumb internet drama.
It's lame that it's Lia, since she's unstable and has had irl stalker problems on her own already. Also we've already seen her face and that's what you want anyways. Is the vtuber cute or ugly-cute? I think Lia's cute, just TBC. Also Lia's so open that I doubt I'd find anything interesting looking on her tumblr that would compare to just Lia on stream.
Edit: I'd be bad for a lot of them though and I hop they're more careful. Things like were Airi works or what school Remi is in would be bad to be exposed if real names got found.
Botan is big for Japanese standards, same with Okayu. The only truely fat one I have seen is Matsuri's younger photos. Now, she looks fine but her and Chaama are chasing some specific number.
Okayu was fat although I would assume she probably slimmed down a bit. She seems to be pretty great at concerts and performances and I would find it hard to believe that someone at that size wouldnt be dying. Then again Luna and Marine were fairly thin and had stamina issues so maybe that has nothing to do with it.
It's lame that it's Lia, since she's unstable and has had irl stalker problems on her own already. Also we've already seen her face and that's what you want anyways. Is the vtuber cute or ugly-cute? I think Lia's cute, just TBC. Also Lia's so open that I doubt I'd find anything interesting looking on her tumblr that would compare to just Lia on stream.
Edit: I'd be bad for a lot of them though and I hop they're more careful. Things like were Airi works or what school Remi is in would be bad to be exposed if real names got found.
Kanpainki are having a meltdown with recent announcement on the PCD. This comes from Tenma about doing stuff less on discord, but unclear if fishman also wants her to interact with people less on the discord too. View attachment 5039
Edit:
Hi friend, I have been tracking this stuff for multiple years now and I'm pretty sure Cover includes talent income and expenditure under Amount of Sales and Cost of Sales respectively, as if it were a direct commission or expense to obtain that revenue specifically.
I know this is a little unusual as often even commissions are accounted for in operating expenses, but I've spreadsheeted it out and that is the only place that makes sense. If you account for SC income (tracked by Playboard), minus YT's known cut of 30%, and a reasonably low estimate of YT ad income, and completely ignore memberships, the only place the income can possibly be tracked is in sales. I am less sure about the talent cut but feel fairly confident it should be in cost of sales, as there is no way to split the money from an Adsense account, which is how YT pays out. If they do ignore talent cut accounting-wise and just pay out without accounting for it, it raises some questions to me, given that Moona has said on stream she gets 50% of all YT-related revenue. That would mean we're ignoring the payout of 1-2 billion yen on the income statement entirely, which I find unlikely.
This makes a lot more sense and is plenty believable, I just wish it was more obvious as to me as this distinction between talent/stream generated revenune vs merchandise revenue/ costs is relevant and should be material enough that I'd personally try to split it out just for clarities sake. This might (it better anyway) be a more internally tracked and split up thing though and these are obviously external public statements, and investors probably don't care as much as I might (both as a chuuba watcher and as an accountant) about these distinctions. So unless you're an insider all you get are these statements pretty much.
I didn't figure Cover was ignoring anything, as no way an auditor would let that happen and the accounting department doesn't want to get in trouble for those kind of shenagins either as at least in burgerland that type of negligant accounting gets your license revoked at least. I just figured it was tucked away in a line item that is too broad for my personal liking without that quote you provided, and I didn't have the patience to try and math it out like you have.
I can understand and comprehend the logic that the talent's cut is part of cost of sales if SC revenue is also part of the top line item for revenue, because if you do organize it that way then sure obviously the cuts are normal operation expenses and the normal revenue cuts that stay in the company can be broadly be defined as "sales revenue". I just found it strange that they weren't split out a little more as I personally find it materially relevant to have this distinction because otherwise it is just this blob of "revenue" which rubs me the wrong way. Industry specific accounting ideas is always a hoot to try and decipher.
I do appreciate these other statements you've provided and I'll for sure give them a read at some point, I'm also interested in your spreadsheets if you feel like sharing them at any point.
Edit: Seriously though: was she talking in the context of vtubers, or of the site as a whole? I think there’s a huge difference between doxing someone like The Horned Rat vs. doxing pippa. And even then there are vastly different levels of ‘doxing’.
As far as vtubers are concerned, just knowing past life/alternate accounts and general region where they live (like which state, not like home address) is plenty, and in most cases a good thing because it allows you to find more of their content and keep up with them if they graduate or anything. Sure antis will use the info for their bad purposes, but I’m willing to bet that Yuni gained way more fans than antis because of Pippa, so the positives outweigh the negatives.
Heck, look at those twincest sisters who are graduating; without that dox, no one would be able to find them again, but because of it they have a head start in whatever they decide to do next, assuming they want to keep making content.
So: degenerate freaks doing illegal things to children, heavy dox good, for the benefit of society as a whole and protection of those around them and legal action (haha yeah right). Vtubers, light dox good, to keep up with their content.
Replying to myself from a month ago in answer to the doxing question.
Even if you're autistic enough to gather all that info as 'insurance' in case that person turns out to be one of the 'bad people' I was referring to, there is no reason to make it public (unless they do something awful to deserve it). Just keep it in your own personal records, and then if it comes out that they are a child rapist, that is when you blast them.
Edit: It's almost time. IRyS was in pre-chat. She just ate Popeyes.
This makes a lot more sense and is plenty believable, I just wish it was more obvious as to me as this distinction between talent/stream generated revenune vs merchandise revenue/ costs is relevant and should be material enough that I'd personally try to split it out just for clarities sake. This might (it better anyway) be a more internally tracked and split up thing though and these are obviously external public statements, and investors probably don't care as much as I might (both as a chuuba watcher and as an accountant) about these distinctions. So unless you're an insider all you get are these statements pretty much.
I didn't figure Cover was ignoring anything, as no way an auditor would let that happen and the accounting department doesn't want to get in trouble for those kind of shenagins either as at least in burgerland that type of negligant accounting gets your license revoked at least. I just figured it was tucked away in a line item that is too broad for my personal liking without that quote you provided, and I didn't have the patience to try and math it out like you have.
I can understand and comprehend the logic that the talent's cut is part of cost of sales if SC revenue is also part of the top line item for revenue, because if you do organize it that way then sure obviously the cuts are normal operation expenses and the normal revenue cuts that stay in the company can be broadly be defined as "sales revenue". I just found it strange that they weren't split out a little more as I personally find it materially relevant to have this distinction because otherwise it is just this blob of "revenue" which rubs me the wrong way. Industry specific accounting ideas is always a hoot to try and decipher.
I do appreciate these other statements you've provided and I'll for sure give them a read at some point, I'm also interested in your spreadsheets if you feel like sharing them at any point.
Anycolor does split it out a bit, that's why I can speak with such confidence.
As a private company, Cover's reporting that we have access to is because they are a kabushiki kaisha, and over a certain size (I believe it's 50 employees) Japan requires that type of company to report to the government and to at least one public source (newspaper, corporate database) their annual financial statements. Of course in those statements Cover will give the bare minimum required by law. Which is why we don't get the nice breakdown that Anycolor gives their public investors.
That's a fair point. I'd like to think a combination of a registration wall and the culture here could filter out some of the more obnoxious people but it's something to think about as the forum grows. I just know that the other extreme is /vt/ where anything even remotely resembling doxing is banned so bad actors are free to vaguepost to skirt the rules and spread whatever rumours they please, because debunking it with evidence is "doxing".
Ultimately it's up to @The Proctor on how he wants to handle this and I suppose he or potential future moderators making a call on a case-by-case basis would probably be the most sustainable position, I just feel bringing up unethically republished information can be a necessary evil in some specific situations is all.
Why is """doxxing""" banned in /vt/ anyways? I thought that hacker4chan is a place where the evil russian trolls defame others and harass young children?
Why is """doxxing""" banned in /vt/ anyways? I thought that hacker4chan is a place where the evil russian trolls defame others and harass young children?
The jannies are so heavy handed on /vt/ that even IRL pics posted by the chuubas themselves or screencaps from streams that feature more than just hands get deleted and banned, but its usually for any chuuba that isn't in the big two corpos.
I got suspended for making fun of unicorns. Then I went back like a month later and made fun of unicorns again. I haven't checked, but I am probably banned again. They are indeed super sensitive over there about everything.
Why is """doxxing""" banned in /vt/ anyways? I thought that hacker4chan is a place where the evil russian trolls defame others and harass young children?
I always figured it was cause it's a blue board. It still happens though you just gotta be around when it happens or hope it gets on the archive (see Grimmi or Pippa)
Doxxing still happens in /vt/, it gets janny'd but it does occur. The dedicated mouthbreathers who have hateboner for Kiara posted most of her roommate's pre-holo streaming pictures that way.
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