"I love being toxic"Nanashi Mumei

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The Scream Guy

Genuinely Mentally Handicapped
Joined:  Mar 10, 2023
Chat I have a job interview today. Pray for me that I get it so I can simp for Senchou and all the former FlaVR talents

Mb posted in wrong thread, Certified Nolan Moment
 
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GOD'S STRONGEST BUILDERBEAR

"Shut up, Dazzle. I will clip your balls" -SB
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 12, 2022
Neuter everyone shilling for palestine/israel under meme tweets
Actaully neuter everyone shilling for palestine/israel
 

agility_

We have some serious streams to discuss 🔨
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 14, 2022
Neuter all shills. Hang every marketer.
 

PleaseCheckYourReceipts

Well-known member
Joined:  May 6, 2023
Little opinion. Aircraft and aircraft carriers are very good and cool. But as the Russian-Ukrainian conflict has shown, ships can practically do nothing against the drone horde. Need to seriously rethink ship defense strategy and tactics, increasing the number of machine guns, installing radio jammers, possibly emi, etc. But first of all, this is not a quick matter (and bureaucracy slows it down many times). And the main thing is that until the generals feel it on their own skin, they will not change anything, thinking that they are already protected from everything.

Yes, but there were no drones at all then, nor were drones used in Syria(the most recent conflict involving the U.S. Army). I've seen so many videos, plus I've talked to people using drones. These weapons are really changing the tactics and strategy of modern warfare. Only long-range missiles and aircraft located several thousand kilometers away will be safe. And even then, bringing a few drones closer to the location and launching them is a simple matter in any country.

The high prevalence of smaller drones in Ukraine is due to the Russian Military's combat philosophy more than anything else. They so completely botched the initial 2022 operation that they've default to WW1 artillery warfare. To the point that bunker and trench building have been really big topics for the last 2 years. Drone combat, in response, has been extremely effective first for Ukraine and then Russia in response. War is always an Industrial Base competition, and Drones are really good for Ukraine from a Cost/Benefit analysis. In nearly any other conflict, the use will be very different.

As for Syria, drones were & are still everywhere there. Drones primary utility will always been information gathering with a secondary for direct combat. The "Drones as cheaper Hellfires or Tomahawks" movement is what people are really talking about with "drone warfare". Note those American systems I'm mentioning are from the 70s/80s. The approach isn't new or technically all that interesting, it's just cheaper now. Everything that goes with a Tomahawk to launch it is the expensive bit. That's why slow moving drones are an order of magnitude cheaper.

The issue is that they haven't let Western Weapon Autists really at the problem of FPV-type drones. You need 2 gimbles, a cellphone that's 3 years old, a couple of cameras and 2 Mossbergs with Bird Shot. 500m Local Air Space Area Denial isn't really that expensive. What matters with Guided Drone Warfare is an enemy that is caught off guard. That's why it works more as War Crimes and cleanup operations than as a primary frontline approach. There's currently bombing campaigns in Indonesia against Papuan populations and Mexican Cartels against random local villages.

That said, the Russia-Ukraine war's drone usage is an extension of the introduction of JDAMs and what it's done to warfare generally. Everything is becoming extremely hyper-targeted because it turns out it's actually far more useful to hit things you need to take out rather than reducing buildings to rubble and not getting anything useful out of the exchange. I.e. the opposite of the Russian Military Doctrine.


I thought that was what they were building those big-ass microwave laser cannon things for, was drones? The US was so worried about them that they completely cut out the military industrial complex during the design process to get them on ships sooner IIRC. I'm not particularly up-to-date on military news or anything, but I do remember hearing that they've already got quite a few "drone destroyers" out and about. Inb4 they start making smaller nuclear ships again to power their new lasers...


...And then comes the drone carrier submarine concept which just shits out 500 drones to blow up the destroyers anyways.


But yeah I still think we're still at least decade out from open conflict with China over Taiwan, it's fucking hard to take an island.

A West Taiwan-Taiwan conflict isn't likely unless Taiwan just decides it wants to give up on life. As much as everyone talks about it, I still don't get how really important details always get lost. The South China Sea is actually where roughly 80% of the world's submarines operate. Everyone in the region runs small subs all over the place. Taiwan has 4 modern, diesel-electric subs that would actually be a critical opening engagement target for China. Given China's completely unproven capabilities, their actions in the southern Sea region is almost assuredly going to sink multiple unrelated sea vessels and by Day 2 it will be a Regional War. And that's before the opening salvos from China requiring targeting South Korea, Japan and The Philippines.

Then there is the reality that an invasion of the island would require the single largest amphibious invasion in human history into one of the worst places in the world to try it and with an incredibly hostile population. It'd be like trying to take Iwo Jima, just many, many times bigger with a population that'll kill you the instant you try to move. Which means it'll first be a paratrooper invasion of multiple airbases followed by a sea landing at one of only a couple of spots. Which is something the Taiwanese are well aware of and their defenses are built around it.

Even the professionals doing analysis always wargame an invasion like it's USA-Iraq. The operation would have to be a copy of the D-Day Invasion of Normandy, not some paradrop primary approach. Which is why China would need to open with tactical nukes. It's as short and simple as that. Which would also render any benefit from taking Taiwan pretty moot. Especially as plenty of other actors would destroy TSMC's fabs (the 2nd most valuable asset to controlling Taiwan), while at the same time they'd lose access to most of their imports.

Could China invade Taiwan? Yes. Would the CCP survive it? If done militarily, no. Would it be counted among history's 5 greatest military blunders? Yes.

Though there's always one, to me, funny part of the topic. If it was somehow protracted, there'd be a chance for a US-backed Vietnamese invasion of Gaungxi and an attempt to take Hainan. Part of me just finds that factoid in a history book 200 years from now hilarious to think about. China would also very quickly have actual separatist fighting in multiple areas. It'd be land grab time, which brings every old grudge out of the woodworks.
 

El Rrata

Gringo Tolerable
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 9, 2022
Your favorite hobby is posting about how great hololive and gura are, constantly, like that crossroads evangelist from Kingdom of Heaven telling the crusaders they can buy their way into heaven by killing the mammeluks.
Shut up, retard.
:BijouBijou:
 

Thomas Talus

Εκ λόγου άλλος εκβαίνει λόγος
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 15, 2022
The high prevalence of smaller drones in Ukraine is due to the Russian Military's combat philosophy more than anything else. They so completely botched the initial 2022 operation that they've default to WW1 artillery warfare. To the point that bunker and trench building have been really big topics for the last 2 years. Drone combat, in response, has been extremely effective first for Ukraine and then Russia in response. War is always an Industrial Base competition, and Drones are really good for Ukraine from a Cost/Benefit analysis. In nearly any other conflict, the use will be very different.
It's the first major conflict we've seen in ages where no one has air superiority.
Could China invade Taiwan? Yes. Would the CCP survive it? If done militarily, no. Would it be counted among history's 5 greatest military blunders? Yes.
None of that means that China won't try to do it.
 

Eureka

Well-known member
Joined:  Sep 5, 2023
At this rate can we rename this to the general war room thread?
 

USS IOWA

Well-known member
Joined:  Oct 22, 2022
Inb4 someone leaks government secrets to win an argument.
 

Just pretending

The Great Bald Rrat
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Joined:  Sep 10, 2022

GOD'S STRONGEST BUILDERBEAR

"Shut up, Dazzle. I will clip your balls" -SB
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 12, 2022
That said, the Russia-Ukraine war's drone usage is an extension of the introduction of JDAMs and what it's done to warfare generally. Everything is becoming extremely hyper-targeted because it turns out it's actually far more useful to hit things you need to take out rather than reducing buildings to rubble and not getting anything useful out of the exchange. I.e. the opposite of the Russian Military Doctrine.
Bro has been getting his info from CNN.....
 

PleaseCheckYourReceipts

Well-known member
Joined:  May 6, 2023
Bro has been getting his info from CNN.....
I'd suggest Perun for some more detailed discussions that are generally approachable.

As for Russian Military Doctrine, they have one. I'm still not sure exactly what they think it'll accomplish, but they do blow up a lot of stuff with artillery. "Modern" artillery at least lands somewhere in the general direction of the intended target. Which is why the JDAM revolution was so important as pretty much every analysis of US Air Power until the point would note how terribly inaccurate munitions were. (This is also why the nuclear strikes on Japan were so effective, as they could actually target the one bomb close enough to the intended spot and, even if off a bit, still hit the target.)
 

GOD'S STRONGEST BUILDERBEAR

"Shut up, Dazzle. I will clip your balls" -SB
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 12, 2022
As for Russian Military Doctrine, they have one. I'm still not sure exactly what they think it'll accomplish, but they do blow up a lot of stuff with artillery. "Modern" artillery at least lands somewhere in the general direction
You say all that despite a good shiiton of footage of artillery hitting infrastructure andvforeign mercenary gathering spots, fabs hitting target, and few point blank shots on unit like that one time a suicide unit went into belgorod oblast.

I'd suggest Perun for
By name alone shit glows. Go find yourself someone that doesnt present ((())) talking points under the guise of neutral analysis, thats propaganda 101
 

Hotdogs Aplenty

King Shiori Poster & Watcher
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 10, 2022
Well Russia's doctrine of mass tank rush with heavy artillery didn't adapt for the modern battlefield. Javalins and drones killed the tank rush, look at the loses in the opening days. Their tank rush was under the assumption that they may lose 4 tanks for every NATO tank, but that is ok since they have 5 more in waiting. Their artillery wasn't ment for drawn out battles, the barrels are junk from wear with shells exploding in them. Corruption means that any maintenance needed wasn't done on them. Russia has also used up their newer shells so they are using either old stock or NK shells that either don't detonate, have no explosive in them, or aren't giving the rated range. Ukraine has also done well with their counter battery fire as well.
 

VSoyBoy

Well-known member
Joined:  Feb 16, 2024
This thread's motto ever since it got renamed:
5463645-Ving-Rhames-Quote-It-can-always-get-worse.jpeg
 

Aquatic Novellite

Merry Shiorin
Early Adopter
Joined:  Oct 10, 2022
Little opinion. Aircraft and aircraft carriers are very good and cool. But as the Russian-Ukrainian conflict has shown, ships can practically do nothing against the drone horde. Need to seriously rethink ship defense strategy and tactics, increasing the number of machine guns, installing radio jammers, possibly emi, etc. But first of all, this is not a quick matter (and bureaucracy slows it down many times). And the main thing is that until the generals feel it on their own skin, they will not change anything, thinking that they are already protected from everything.
Naval drones are just very slow, but very long ranged torpedoes. They're also, quite emphatically, used against ships at anchor. They're not going to deny a blue water force. I'd go so far as to say that they're the modern successors of the Italian frogmen that sank HMS Queen Elizabeth and Valiant.
Yes, but there were no drones at all then, nor were drones used in Syria(the most recent conflict involving the U.S. Army). I've seen so many videos, plus I've talked to people using drones. These weapons are really changing the tactics and strategy of modern warfare. Only long-range missiles and aircraft located several thousand kilometers away will be safe. And even then, bringing a few drones closer to the location and launching them is a simple matter in any country.
This is quite true. Modern battlefield transparency is immense (and apparently leads to a considerable increase in micromanagement). Though drone control inevitably relying on radiating makes me deeply suspicious that drone warfare would become greatly more dangerous for the operator in an environment where one side can into SEAD.

And it is always worth remembering that for all the press that drones are getting, the big killer is the same one as in the 1940s and 1910s: Artillery.
Well Russia's doctrine of mass tank rush with heavy artillery didn't adapt for the modern battlefield. Javalins and drones killed the tank rush, look at the loses in the opening days. Their tank rush was under the assumption that they may lose 4 tanks for every NATO tank, but that is ok since they have 5 more in waiting. Their artillery wasn't ment for drawn out battles, the barrels are junk from wear with shells exploding in them. Corruption means that any maintenance needed wasn't done on them. Russia has also used up their newer shells so they are using either old stock or NK shells that either don't detonate, have no explosive in them, or aren't giving the rated range. Ukraine has also done well with their counter battery fire as well.
Eh. Artillery was more important than ATGMs even in the opening days. What did Russia in was that Russia cannot into logistics and thus couldn't support the deep strikes it tried to execute.

Once Russia recognized its logistical inadequacy and lost all the territory it had overextended into to Ukraine, things got noticeably better.
 

USS IOWA

Well-known member
Joined:  Oct 22, 2022
Naval drones are just very slow, but very long ranged torpedoes. They're also, quite emphatically, used against ships at anchor. They're not going to deny a blue water force. I'd go so far as to say that they're the modern successors of the Italian frogmen that sank HMS Queen Elizabeth and Valiant.

This is quite true. Modern battlefield transparency is immense (and apparently leads to a considerable increase in micromanagement). Though drone control inevitably relying on radiating makes me deeply suspicious that drone warfare would become greatly more dangerous for the operator in an environment where one side can into SEAD.

And it is always worth remembering that for all the press that drones are getting, the big killer is the same one as in the 1940s and 1910s: Artillery.

Eh. Artillery was more important than ATGMs even in the opening days. What did Russia in was that Russia cannot into logistics and thus couldn't support the deep strikes it tried to execute.

Once Russia recognized its logistical inadequacy and lost all the territory it had overextended into to Ukraine, things got noticeably better.
I remember reading that the Russians way of logistics is actually a holdover from the Soviets, Which is they compute how many supplies a particular Division needs at set time and send them all of it, Their thinking was that future battlefields might do away with frontlines and might resort into pocketed low density fighting so they need to be more mobile without waiting for supplies. And by that note is also the reason why deep strikes is problem for the Russians cause when they tried to thunder run into Kyiv 2 years ago most of their supplies is near their frontline troops and thus they were getting picked of by the Ukrainians on the rear of their column with ATGMS and longer range artillery.

I'd suggest Perun for some more detailed discussions that are generally approachable.
Ayyy another Perun fan.
 

Sankisei

HOLOLIVE SAIKYO
Joined:  Feb 23, 2023
*seeing the politispergs of this thread*
Nigganon was a hero i just couldnt see it
 

Superduper Samurai

Well-known member
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 10, 2022
*seeing the politispergs of this thread*
Nigganon was a hero i just couldnt see it

The sexual tension was replaced by armchair military autism
Sad
We need thhrang and reticule or thhrang and the proctor to fill in that void of raw sexual energy
 

Awoogers

basic ass man who loves the british funny woman
Joined:  Jun 7, 2023
i at least had fun reading the stuff id normally ignore so thats good
 

Hotdogs Aplenty

King Shiori Poster & Watcher
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 10, 2022
The sexual tension was replaced by armchair military autism
Sad
We need thhrang and reticule or thhrang and the proctor to fill in that void of raw sexual energy
We would end up with an 18 hour video of Proctor reading "The Wealth of Nations" to thhrang.
 
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