"Zaion, Queen of the Jews"Zaimons

Banter/Off-topic Thread & Community Stoning Platform

Helmet-kun Backwards

Terminally addicted to pointless longposts
Joined:  Feb 29, 2024
I had that in mind, so I sourced it to be sure.
View attachment 71959

This is essentially my argument as well. For a long time, the loli/shota defenders have always fallen back on 'It's not a real kid, go worry about actual pedos and CSAM stuff'. Which is something I understand and I do end up agreeing with. Well now we have an example of someone saying 'nope, fuckit. I like kids' and we still have people coming out of the wordwork to defend her. Why is everyone believing every single other screenshot that was posted about her, but this is the one people don't want to take seriously? I don't understand it.


Think about it this way. Look at Twitch. If you say "I am 13 years old" in someone's Twitch Chat, the streamer is obligated to ban you even if you can prove you are above 18. Their stream is in jeopardy if they do not proactively ban you and they themselves can be actioned for it.

If we, the owner and operators of this site, believe the following:
  1. We have discovered a vTuber that has expressed pedophilic thoughts both publicly (borderline via toddlercon) and privately (I was attracted to children).
  2. This person, despite claiming they've gotten better and don't harbor those thoughts, has seemingly done nothing to break free of the persona/audience that entertained and encouraged those thoughts in the past.
  3. This person has also demonstrated a large penchant for deception and attempting to hide her previous bad actions (DMCA'ing archive sites, live DFE of her steam profile, etc).
  4. When presenting what evidence and conjecture we feel is pretty compelling about the situation, we have people going "So I know we said in the past "At least it isn't real kids", but now that its real kids let me tell you how the potential pedo might be the real victim here" (I understand this is editorialized, fuck off).
One of the many reasons we asked people to stop is similar to the above example with Twitch. If we - the entire moderation staff - honestly believe that there might be people going to bat for someone ALL of the mods suspect is a pedo, what is our moral obligation here? What action do we take for the health of the website as a whole? We were pleading with people to just stop making those effort posts and to simply condemn her and move on.

Now tell me what are we to do for the overall health and image of this website? Because I sure as shit don't particularly like the position I've been put in by this. This is one of the few subjects on the planet you absolutely cannot fuck around with and yet here we are.
That is a fairly disingenuous way to frame this issue, and I'll tell you why.

First and foremost, you have god damn mod tools, and can easily time someone out for a small period of time, dm someone explaining your exact concerns to them privately, and keep general discussion open.

Second, if encouraging a healthy image of the website is the goal, there are other issues on here far worse, ie proctor meltdowns and ban threats for rules not previously stated.

Third, and most importantly. We literally just transferred to a private server, specifically so this site can't be taken down on a whim. Why is it that we're suddenly concerned with one kind of internet no-no for the site's image(arguably the most important no-no, to be fair), when you're ignoring literally every other internet no-no that will also tank the site's image? I mean, I know it's because you guys in particular feel more strongly about this one (as do I, for that matter), but the subjectivity of it is what's concerning, and why I feel your post kind of rings hollow.



I said it before, and I'll say it again for the last time because I have work in a few hours and really really really need to go to bed at this point. There are very legitimate reasons to be unhappy with how circle-jerky this damn Kiki thing is, and none of them have to do with her diddling kids. Fucking put her behind bars immediately, damn. None of my issues are with her treatment, it is ALL how people here are getting off on it, and how they were continuing to keep fucking bitching about other members over it for literal days until it drove me fucking insane. And there are risks to the website when you let the circle-jerks go too, might I add. Woo-hoo, TVA found the Boston Bomber, it was Biboo the whole time, except it wasn't actually her and then we're fucked. Not the case this time. But damn if it isn't coming down the pike.
 
Last edited:

RestlessRain

Well-known member
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 21, 2022
:tomorrow:Wow thhrang. I didn't know you missed me that much to be thinking about me like that. You know that Nag is gone we need a new joke scapegoat to call a femboy.
Moves on to someone else and Nag's only been gone for a day.

You might have changed your gender but you're still a whore.
 

GOD'S STRONGEST BUILDERBEAR

"Shut up, Dazzle. I will clip your balls" -SB
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 12, 2022
You are a retarded ESL slavic Yamanba, so it's hard to even get at what you are saying. "Laugh at [kiki] or those defending kiki," is your suggestion. No, the only normal conclusion would be to revile them. Google that term, I know you'll need to. "[some argument that they aren't related to us so we don't have to do anything]." That's tangential to an appeal to triviality. If it doesn't matter then it doesn't matter if people are mad and people shouldn't even try to defend her. KYS. The next sentence is irrelevant and hard to follow. Your last sentence is surprisingly valid, but Reinigen has stated that wasn't his intention, I can't speak for what Prostate was thinking, especially as the information he was hoping to be forthcoming hasn't materialized.

Good way to go about it would be laughing at naganon
?????

people still insisted on renting backhoes and going to town anyways. Now we gotta deal. And I dunno what to do.
Give them pink triangle
 

Short

God Damn the Sun
Joined:  Apr 4, 2023
First and foremost, you have god damn mod tools, and can easily time someone out for a small period of time, dm someone explaining your exact concerns to them privately, and keep general discussion open.
No, you fucking femboy if you make a public statement you get a public response.

Second, if encouraging a healthy image of the website is the goal, there are other issues on here far worse, ie proctor meltdowns and ban threats for rules not previously stated.
Having pedo defenders is a thousand times worse them Proctor's sperg outs it's not even close dude LMAO

PLS kill yourself
 
Last edited:

reinigen

Dang it
Ward Security
Joined:  Sep 16, 2022

A Source Filmmaker

SFM animator and Anti-Simp
Joined:  Jun 2, 2024

Nenélove

I am coming for you
Early Adopter
Nene's Pet Latinx
Latinx/Latine
Joined:  Sep 16, 2022
Jesus what the fuck happened here? How many inmates is the kikster gonna claim?
I am not the one who started the empty grand-standing on this forum. In fact, I think if we're talking about empty, retarded grandstanding, there has been plenty of it going on with this particular topic LONG before I snapped and posted about it. Also, if your takeaway from my post was "OMG U GUYS SHOULD REPORT!!11!", instead of "get off your high horse and shut the fuck up, literally nothing anyone has said or done up to this point on this topic has been or will be positive in any material way" you might want to re-read it. With that said, at least you guys are putting your money where your mouth is now, so some actual action is following the moral-fagging.

Have a good night, all.
I don't know what all of this arguing is even about but you have to admit, you kinda got btfo'd by the jannies.
 

Topo Chico

Well-known member
Joined:  Apr 1, 2023
Jesus what the fuck happened here? How many inmates is the kikster gonna claim?
How many want to defend pedophiles and be retarded about verbal warnings vs. temp bans or whatever?
 

God's Strongest Dragoon

Well-known member
Joined:  Mar 20, 2023
Why is it that we're suddenly concerned with one kind of internet no-no for the site's image(arguably the most important no-no, to be fair), when you're ignoring literally every other internet no-no? I mean, I know it's because you guys in particular feel more strongly about this one (as do I, for that matter), but the subjectivity of it is what's concerning, and why I feel your post kind of rings hollow.
>gee guys, why are you so against pedophiles that you don't want to hear defenses for it?!
Second, if encouraging a healthy image of the website is the goal, there are other issues on here far worse, ie proctor meltdowns and ban threats for rules not previously stated.
Did you just equate harboring pedo defenders equal to proctor's meltdowns? Are you fucking serious?

 

Nenélove

I am coming for you
Early Adopter
Nene's Pet Latinx
Latinx/Latine
Joined:  Sep 16, 2022
I think the kicker here is that naganon WAS NOT BANNED, he simply had a controversial opinion and he kept trying to die on that hill.
Discord is gay as fuck and I will never like it, but if someone cannot take contrary opinions and decides to run away that is their own problem. If one of the jannies had BANNED him for said opinions (even ignoring the fact that he was probably shitting up the discord and prevented them from doing... whatever the fuck it is they do there) then I would also be buttmad. As it stands I don't really care, this forum should be about watching and discussing vtubers, not philosophical and moral quandaries which make people righteously offended.
 

VSoyBoy

Well-known member
Joined:  Feb 16, 2024
Reading the past few pages:
Spongebob-tired-meme-4.jpg

I thought I was a fag, but you guys might have me beat.
 

El Rrata

Gringo Tolerable
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 9, 2022

Hff201

Pippa Fan, Failed Normalfriend
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 13, 2022
On one hand I do understand a bit of healthy scepticism and even the desire to see a smoking gun before going full-on condemnation in most situations, calling someone a paedophile is a life-ruining accusation, and misfiring that accusation (even through a technicality that gives them plausible deniability) can completely tank one's credibility.

But on the other hand, I also feel like anyone still sceptical should give the Short post another once-over. If I were given any of those pieces of information individually I'd be hesitant to write her off completely, but put them together and you have the damning part. This is someone who a) has admitted that, at some point in their life, they believed themselves to be attracted to children, b) has also, at some point in their life, worked with disabled children, and c) regularly engages with /vt/ as part of their branding, a board where anonymous users with no post history to provide context cues for their character are applauded for making comments promoting child abuse and rape. I've listed these in as clinical and sterile wording as I can because I believe it's especially important not to editorialise when publishing facts about emotionally-charged subjects, but even when presented like that, it still paints a very disturbing picture, and my opinion based on those facts is that I do not like or trust Kiki.

As for @reinigen's point about how to handle the commentary, I will say I don't envy that position at all. I will state that while some people have been far too charitable toward Kiki, I don't think that's on the same level as "defending paedophilia", it's just mostly just picking apart information and missing the big picture. Cody's effortposts were among the first to cause ire, but I do think it's important to acknowledge that at no point was he trying to make the point that "this creepy shit is okay, actually", he was just fumbling over himself trying to psychoanalyse it against what he knows about her. That's not the wisest thing to think out loud about, but if we removed posts like that it would just be everyone saying "paedophilia is bad" over and over, which duh, abusing kids is abhorrent, we don't need a thread to tell us that.

If the concern is about the risk this kind of commentary brings to the forum then I can appreciate not wanting it here, and I think it would be fair to ask for any posts about the situation to present findings in a matter-of-fact manner. I vaguely recall the original wording of the forum rules having a section along the lines of "I do not want to see anyone arguing the merits of lolicon" while not completely barring people from posting updates related to loli-presenting vtubers. A similar compromise of "I don't want discussion on factors that may have led to someone being attracted to children, nor do I want commentary that could be interpreted as presenting paedophiles in a sympathetic light" for this situation would allow for people to continue coming forward with the important information that is unambiguously in the public interest (notable screenshots, clips etc. of Kiki, things that could be used as evidence of her wrongdoing) without the derailing the thread.
 

The Proctor

Manager Arc Unlocked?
Staff member
Lovebug Proctologist
Joined:  Sep 9, 2022
I think the kicker here is that naganon WAS NOT BANNED, he simply had a controversial opinion and he kept trying to die on that hill.

I wish to confirm this. Not one single person has (yet) been banned or disciplined over this. I was regretting that stance until recently, but I'm glad I didn't start shooting wildly because it has given other people the chance to speak out and prove many of my points.

Allow me to now quote from one of my favourite pieces of truly precognitive research; the Mouse Utopia experiment.

Eventually other deviant behavior emerged. Mice who had been raised improperly or kicked out of the nest early often failed to develop healthy social bonds, and therefore struggled in adulthood with social interactions. Maladjusted females began isolating themselves like hermits in empty apartments—unusual behavior among mice. Maladjusted males, meanwhile, took to grooming all day—preening and licking themselves hour after hour. Calhoun called them “the beautiful ones.”

I sincerely feel as if the crux of this debate lies not with the details, but the fundamental perspectives of those on either side. One side is mentally and emotionally well adjusted enough, and possesses enough connections to generational values, that the idea of defending someone like Kiki is genuinely incomprehensible. Their very moral fibre rebels against the idea. Their genetic instincts to recoil from things that are objectively detrimental are intact, and have not been dulled by endless hours scrolling gore and pornography on 4chan.

Some people might find this a condescending or insulting stance, as I am essentially telling them that there is something broken, damaged and malfunctioning about their brains. Good; they should be insulted, because they are worthy of insults. Nobody whose first instinct upon reading 'I have sexual desires towards children and actively seek the company of disabled infants' is anything resembling 'I need to hear more about this individual's opinions and expect a convincing argument that will exonerate them' has a well-adjusted brain chemistry.

As a comparison; we often talk about transsexuals on this forum. I'd say the vast majority of us would scoff at the idea of a transperson passing as the opposite sex convincingly. Why is that? Well, it's because the moment they open their mouths to speak, something deeply rooted in our subconscious automatically assigns them a biological sex. We think 'man' or 'woman'. We don't think 'nonbinary intersex trans lesbian attack helicopter'. Most of us can't perfectly describe how or why this happens, we just know. Doesn't matter if they wear makeup, are on HRT, have had surgery, etc. Our brains are hardwired to categorize them and do it accurately.

Our brains should do the same when it comes to statements like the one I commented on above. You should react to a lack of instinctual revulsion and condemnation of paedophilia with deep introspection, to figure out what is wrong with your innate, biological instincts. Your conscience should not physically allow you to indulge in anything besides that reaction. It should clench your gut into knots to even think about typing a phrase like 'I think we should give the person who says they want to rape children the benefit of the doubt'.

A lot of people seem to think this stance requires further action. However, it really doesn't. All I expect and want people to do is not try and delude themselves that there is any other rational, reasonable explanation for all of this, and then get on with their lives. It takes very, very little effort to not side with paedophiles, and aside from that, I have never asked or even implied that people should do anything more. You don't even need to make a virtue signal and say 'yeah, kill all pdf files' or whatever. I don't need that, I don't want that, and it would accomplish barely anything anyway.

All you need to do, if you feel so inclined, is to copy-paste the links to the compilations about Kiki that have so far been created, and have them at the ready if you see the unaware commenting on the drama without a complete picture of the facts. You don't have to yell at them, you don't have to insist they look. Just make sure they can come to an informed decision.

That's all anyone should expect.
 

GOD'S STRONGEST BUILDERBEAR

"Shut up, Dazzle. I will clip your balls" -SB
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 12, 2022

Nenélove

I am coming for you
Early Adopter
Nene's Pet Latinx
Latinx/Latine
Joined:  Sep 16, 2022
I wish to confirm this. Not one single person has (yet) been banned or disciplined over this. I was regretting that stance until recently, but I'm glad I didn't start shooting wildly because it has given other people the chance to speak out and prove many of my points.

Allow me to now quote from one of my favourite pieces of truly precognitive research; the Mouse Utopia experiment.



I sincerely feel as if the crux of this debate lies not with the details, but the fundamental perspectives of those on either side. One side is mentally and emotionally well adjusted enough, and possesses enough connections to generational values, that the idea of defending someone like Kiki is genuinely incomprehensible. Their very moral fibre rebels against the idea. Their genetic instincts to recoil from things that are objectively detrimental are intact, and have not been dulled by endless hours scrolling gore and pornography on 4chan.

Some people might find this a condescending or insulting stance, as I am essentially telling them that there is something broken, damaged and malfunctioning about their brains. Good; they should be insulted, because they are worthy of insults. Nobody whose first instinct upon reading 'I have sexual desires towards children and actively seek the company of disabled infants' is anything resembling 'I need to hear more about this individual's opinions and expect a convincing argument that will exonerate them' has a well-adjusted brain chemistry.

As a comparison; we often talk about transsexuals on this forum. I'd say the vast majority of us would scoff at the idea of a transperson passing as the opposite sex convincingly. Why is that? Well, it's because the moment they open their mouths to speak, something deeply rooted in our subconscious automatically assigns them a biological sex. We think 'man' or 'woman'. We don't think 'nonbinary intersex trans lesbian attack helicopter'. Most of us can't perfectly describe how or why this happens, we just know. Doesn't matter if they wear makeup, are on HRT, have had surgery, etc. Our brains are hardwired to categorize them and do it accurately.

Our brains should do the same when it comes to statements like the one I commented on above. You should react to a lack of instinctual revulsion and condemnation of paedophilia with deep introspection, to figure out what is wrong with your innate, biological instincts. Your conscience should not physically allow you to indulge in anything besides that reaction. It should clench your gut into knots to even think about typing a phrase like 'I think we should give the person who says they want to rape children the benefit of the doubt'.

A lot of people seem to think this stance requires further action. However, it really doesn't. All I expect and want people to do is not try and delude themselves that there is any other rational, reasonable explanation for all of this, and then get on with their lives. It takes very, very little effort to not side with paedophiles, and aside from that, I have never asked or even implied that people should do anything more. You don't even need to make a virtue signal and say 'yeah, kill all pdf files' or whatever. I don't need that, I don't want that, and it would accomplish barely anything anyway.

All you need to do, if you feel so inclined, is to copy-paste the links to the compilations about Kiki that have so far been created, and have them at the ready if you see the unaware commenting on the drama without a complete picture of the facts. You don't have to yell at them, you don't have to insist they look. Just make sure they can come to an informed decision.

That's all anyone should expect.
0a1.jpg
 

GOD'S STRONGEST BUILDERBEAR

"Shut up, Dazzle. I will clip your balls" -SB
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 12, 2022
Our brains should do the same when it comes to statements like the one I commented on above. You should react to a lack of instinctual revulsion and condemnation of paedophilia with deep introspection, to figure out what is wrong with your innate, biological instincts. Your conscience should not physically allow you to indulge in anything besides that reaction. It should clench your gut into knots to even think about typing a phrase like 'I think we should give the person who says they want to rape children the benefit of the doubt'.
Really doesnt apply here. Tranny example is also absolutelly wrong because the world isnt divided into "vermintide are women" and "vermintide arent women". There are people that are okay with vermintide due to lack of education, due to indoctrination, due to conformism, due to their moral code, due to wanting to not ruin their social standing, but all of them still know that sex cannot be changed. And this is why concept of gender was invented, to claim different identity to the one you biologically are. People can change their mind, see how horrible the trans industry is, leave the places that demand of them to be courteous to the vermintide. Opinion on this depends on society and ones personal experience.

I'm not defending anyone, but sadly, we live in the post #MeToo world. This made people either really conscious of any allegations, or dismissive of them outright. The proof of kikis wrongdoings is a three kilometre collage of screenshots that were cropped out of context, could be edited, contained ERP session between a grown ass man and possibly underage kiki, and had dubious origin. Source of that collage is /vt/, which doesnt give the evidence any credibility. Ofc people would either take the sources with the grain of salt, or try to defend alleged behavour. And so far, only you have vagueposted about having anything actually confirming shes a pedophile. Im just saying its not that easy or simple as a bunch of rats in a large cage would lead you to believe.
 
Last edited:

The Proctor

Manager Arc Unlocked?
Staff member
Lovebug Proctologist
Joined:  Sep 9, 2022
but all of them still know that sex cannot be changed.

This is absolutely, comedically wrong and five minutes talking to the average Commiefornian on any medium whatsoever would disprove it completely, so I'm not even going to bother trying to. Russians truly have unlimited reserves of Copium as well as natural gas.
 

GOD'S STRONGEST BUILDERBEAR

"Shut up, Dazzle. I will clip your balls" -SB
Early Adopter
Joined:  Sep 12, 2022
This is absolutely, comedically wrong and five minutes talking to the average Commiefornian on any medium whatsoever would disprove it completely, so I'm not even going to bother trying to. Russians truly have unlimited reserves of Copium as well as natural gas.
Dude 5 minutes in beauty parlor will give you a second hand experience of an average commiefornian cause the entire subforum are halfnhalf femoids and former leftietards. Yes, none of them actually think sex can be changed no matter how many times they repeat that shit on twitter.com
None of them think transwomen are actually women, just that their "gender" is "woman"
 

The Proctor

Manager Arc Unlocked?
Staff member
Lovebug Proctologist
Joined:  Sep 9, 2022
Yes, none of them actually think sex can be changed no matter how many times they repeat that shit on twitter.com
None of them think transwomen are actually women, just that their "gender" is "woman"

Please, Russian man who has never left his country, keep telling me what reality is in the country I live in and the culture I've studied extensively for years. Btw, since it's Pride Month again, want to tell me again how gay pride parades are fictional and never actually happen?
 
Top Bottom