Banter/Off-topic Thread & Community Stoning Platform

[Koronesuki]

Kurt Cobain was an outspoken male feminist in the 1990s.

Had he survived to the modern day, he'd be Mark Hamill but somehow even more insufferable.

Sadly, I think that you're right about that.

Also, Nirvana would not have become the quintessential grunge band in the public consciousness, but rather Soundgarden, Pearl Jam or Alice in Chains, which would be far more deserving imo.

Nirvana already was already the quintessential grunge band in the public consciousness before Kurt joined the 27 club, which I always thought was ironic, because they weren't really grunge. (Their last album was, but their early stuff didn't sound like grunge at all.  Nevermind was sort of halfway in between.) I agree that other bands were far more representative of the genre.

 

[God's Strongest Dragoon]

Kurt Cobain was mentally ill and couldn't deal with suddenly being famous. Of course he would hate the song that specifically rocketed him to a stardom that he didn't want.

Can't match the Sex Pistols pumping out ONE album, imploding, and then being remembered as the definitive punk rock band. Kurt even named Nevermind after that album.

Care to give a few Album recommendations? I love to discover new music. Never really got into Grundge except for Nirvana. I mostly listened to classic Rock/Metal like Black Sabbath, Metallica, Led Zeppelin, Van Halen etc.
I could go on and on but that's beside the point. I don't want to start a whole discussion about music here.

Sixteen Stone by Bush sounds a lot like Nirvana in some aspects but it's still a good listen. The one problem is that it's all very same-ish.

Siamese Dream by the Smash Pumpkins is a mix of alt rock, progressive rock, and grunge but it is often pointed to as one of the better grunge albums. You've got bangers like Cherub Rock, Soma, and Mayonaise. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness is also a really good album but it's a bit less grunge than the other album. It has some great grunge songs like Zero and Bullet with Butterfly Wings but then you got some serious progressive rock with something like Tonight, Tonight and 1979.

 

[Koronesuki]

Can't match the Sex Pistols pumping out ONE album, imploding, and then being remembered as the definitive punk rock band.

That's exactly why they're the definitive punk rock band.

 

[Smelliest007]

It's almost too hard to believe how well the Pirate Software drama has kicked off, now they're finding him looking at guides while passing it off as being heccing smart in Animal Well, Tunic, and Outer Wilds.

https://kiwifarms.st/threads/jason-thor-hall-piratesoftware-maldavius-figtree-darksphere-creations-maldavius-thorwich-witness-x-potatosec.197757/page-245#post-20353554

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/jason-thor-hall-piratesoftware-maldavius-figtree-darksphere-creations-maldavius-thorwich-witness-x-potatosec.197757/post-20360103

 

[CalciumAnimal]

I don't want to start a whole discussion about music here.

It's off topic and the actual music thread died ill do what i want!. The main issue with Grunge is once you have heard one song you have more or less heard them all when your signature style is music that sticks to your ears like mud there's only so much you can do sonically to stand out.

It's why Bands like Alice in Chainz Soundgarden and Nirvana mix it with rock Grunge on it's own is a slog.

In addition to the already mentioned bands Stone Temple Pilots Smashing Pumpkins Foo Fighters and The Pixies are also borrowing from Grunge.



Im sure you heard this one somewhere at some point. Slow plodding that sounds like mud. I'm sure you can think of other songs that fit

Im less sure about pure Grunge since i was never a fan.

 

[Brosnan Pierce Brosnan]

I'm gonna go add my two cents as a music autist

Grunge is a strange concept that is more defined as a general scene than a music style. So if we are counting that I'd definitely also recommend Sixteen Stone and Siamese Dream even though I wouldn't say that those albums kick ass 100%, what you will find though is that those guys wrote kick ass riffs. Another one is In Utero by Nirvana.

STP I personally like, but not really their albums through and through as they are kind of inconsistent. The Big Empty is awesome though.

Pearl jam on the other hand, as a kid I liked Ten and none of their other stuff. But now Ten is just like REALLY melodramatic. Pearl Jam came out of the corpse of Mother Love Bone which were teetering on hair metal and it definitely shows in Ten. Later they just kind of aped REM without the focus. And that shit ain't Grunge either.

Screaming Trees were very good, I like their early stuff but they were also very just like Psychadelic Hard Rock like they came out of the 60s. They had a "grunge" hit but IMO their better stuff like Invisible Lantern and Uncle Anesthesia were just psychadelic hard Rock. Something About Today for instance kicks ass.

Now onto the others, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, the Melvins and early Nirvana. They are more easily described as Sludge Metal. Nirvana's best album IMO by far is also the hardest one for me to recommend to General like listeners and that is Bleach which really dives into sludge metal. Meanwhile the Melvins essentially pioneered that style, doom metal, drone etc. If you want to dig deep my recommendation there is Lysol (and if you end up liking Lysol there is a solid chance you'd like Doom metal like Electric Wizard).

Alice in Chains and Soundgarden IMO were by far the two best bands out of that scene with Alice in Chains being my clear favorite as they were by far the most consistent out of all these bands. If Grunge didn't take off these two bands would likely be remembered as the best metal bands of the 90s, instead they get compared to Nirvana and Pearl Jam which they ain't. You have great heavy sludge metal albums from them like Alice in Chains and Badmotorfinger. While you also have excellent executed more experimental albums like Jar of flies and Superunknown. Soundgarden also kind of released a hair metal album called Louder then love which is an incredibly amusing listen.

If the sludge and Psychadelic stuff is what you gravitate more towards than say Bush or thr Pumpkins output then there is a very high chance that you'd also dig Kyuss and Monster Magnet. That is a whole nother rabbit hole.

 

[God's Strongest Dragoon]

Grunge is a strange concept that is more defined as a general scene than a music style. So if we are counting that I'd definitely also recommend Sixteen Stone and Siamese Dream even though I wouldn't say that those albums kick ass 100%, what you will find though is that those guys wrote kick ass riffs. Another one is In Utero by Nirvana.

Grunge is basically just punk rock mixed with metal. Considering how many subgenres of metal there are, it lends itself to Grunge being really ill-defined in sound. There's also the nature of the lyrics, where the whole thing is about disillusionment and angst.

As a general scene, there is a huge focus on authenticity. There aren't really "rockstars" in grunge as artists aren't held up and deified as some special being like Freddy Mercury or Alice Cooper, they're more suppose to be down to earth and relatable. Nirvana Unplugged is peak grunge in this regard.

 

[GOD'S STRONGEST BUILDERBEAR]

Anyone who says tiktok ban is justified is a retard. Your talking heads are using the same talking points our censors do here. Tiktok ban is a slippery slope and will be eventually be used to deny service to domestic resources

 

[I Wanna Die]

Anyone who says tiktok ban is justified is a retard. Your talking heads are using the same talking points our censors do here. Tiktok ban is a slippery slope and will be eventually be used to deny service to domestic resources

Maybe, but seeing zoomers cry is worth it.

 

[Brosnan Pierce Brosnan]

Grunge is basically just punk rock mixed with metal. Considering how many subgenres of metal there are, it lends itself to Grunge being really ill-defined in sound. There's also the nature of the lyrics, where the whole thing is about disillusionment and angst.

As a general scene, there is a huge focus on authenticity. There aren't really "rockstars" in grunge as artists aren't held up and deified as some special being like Freddy Mercury or Alice Cooper, they're more suppose to be down to earth and relatable. Nirvana Unplugged is peak grunge in this regard.

Yeah, this is important context to those not around back then. Like sonically, musically you might not be able point out huge differences but essentially the Grunge scene and bands hopping onto that bandwagon were trying to look counter to the 80s "video killed the radio star" approach where Metal got glammed up and became Hair Metal and Punk went glam and became New Wave. Artists that were more made to catch your eyes on TV than necessarily on the radio (of course a holdover of the 70s artists like Cooper, Kiss and Bowie but they went to theatrics to capture the attention of live audiences, they still had to be top of the line musicians in order to get the attention of people before they showed up to a concert, that is a whole another tangent. All three are also important to Grunge bands oddly enough also).

And like how Punk essentially devolved into a dress code so did Grunge. Kurt from what I recall went to very specific lengths to look the way he did. And ironically once people saw him on TV they followed suit. Just like Punk, and 80s New Wave aesthetic.

Dialing it back to the Punk influence. You can trace Melvins, Alice in Chains and Nirvana to basically one point and that is thr album My War by Black Flag. Specifically it's latter half where they practically invent sludge metal with Scream, Nothing Left Inside etc. But that only came about because they were obsessed with Black Sabbath and wanted to make songs that sounded like them. Which is the norm for every metal band but uncommon for Punk bands. Hence the lead up to Grunge was in place.

The link to Punk doesn't stop there of course as a lot of these bands were influenced by the Misfits and Ramones particularly. At at this point in time Danzig from the Misfits went full on Metal and Doom metal and wouldn't sound out of place on the same bill as Soundgarden or AIC. Hell even Wyndorf and Caivano from Monster Magnet were in a 70s Punk band called Shrapnel.

The 90s though alt rock and metal bands were really hard into the anti rock star or glam aesthetic. Started with Grunge and then all bets were off once Nu Metal rolled around

 

[CalciumAnimal]

Anyone who says tiktok ban is justified is a retard. Your talking heads are using the same talking points our censors do here. Tiktok ban is a slippery slope and will be eventually be used to deny service to domestic resources

it's justified because less social media hellpits is a good thing.

 

[PleaseCheckYourReceipts]

Can't match the Sex Pistols pumping out ONE album, imploding, and then being remembered as the definitive punk rock band. Kurt even named Nevermind after that album.

Sixteen Stone by Bush sounds a lot like Nirvana in some aspects but it's still a good listen. The one problem is that it's all very same-ish.

Siamese Dream by the Smash Pumpkins is a mix of alt rock, progressive rock, and grunge but it is often pointed to as one of the better grunge albums. You've got bangers like Cherub Rock, Soma, and Mayonaise. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness is also a really good album but it's a bit less grunge than the other album. It has some great grunge songs like Zero and Bullet with Butterfly Wings but then you got some serious progressive rock with something like Tonight, Tonight and 1979.

I think it's interesting that Billy Corgan somehow came out of the 90s music scene with his head still attached and not completely destroyed by drugs. Mostly a random aside, but I hadn't really thought about that until now.

It's off topic and the actual music thread died ill do what i want!. The main issue with Grunge is once you have heard one song you have more or less heard them all when your signature style is music that sticks to your ears like mud there's only so much you can do sonically to stand out.

It's why Bands like Alice in Chainz Soundgarden and Nirvana mix it with rock Grunge on it's own is a slog.

In addition to the already mentioned bands Stone Temple Pilots Smashing Pumpkins Foo Fighters and The Pixies are also borrowing from Grunge.



Im sure you heard this one somewhere at some point. Slow plodding that sounds like mud. I'm sure you can think of other songs that fit

Im less sure about pure Grunge since i was never a fan.

Grunge was just an echo of Surf Rock. A very specific spot and scene in a very short period of time. Music culture has become both extremely static and extremely fragmented of late, but before the social media era the labels would mine the hell out of a scene until it was used up. But it did produce some all-time bangers.

Anyone who says tiktok ban is justified is a retard. Your talking heads are using the same talking points our censors do here. Tiktok ban is a slippery slope and will be eventually be used to deny service to domestic resources

Silicon Valley is an outgrowth of the core American Empire. So they operate to that tune. The issue with ByteDance is that TikTok is both great spyware and hyper refined Psychological Warfare. You don't get to play in that realm without paying the Piper. On purely actual National Security grounds, it needs to be banned. Problem is they won't ban short form video on algos, just ones they can't control.

Now, the probably real answer is that they wouldn't respond to National Security Letters. NSLs are the way the State gets around a lot of pesky issues. All companies that operate in the States are required to respond. I'm guessing ByteDance either never did or the information they got out confirmed that CCP Intelligence just had free reign.

 

[Thomas Talus]

Music culture has become both extremely static and extremely fragmented of late

I sometimes ponder how stable/stagnant music, art, and fashion have been since the late 90s.

 

[PleaseCheckYourReceipts]

I sometimes ponder how stable/stagnant music, art, and fashion have been since the late 90s.

There's actually still a lot of trends, but there's two things going on. The first is that there's not a lot of new areas to explore. New Music Trends always came with New Music Technology. And we're already 20+ years into the Home DAW Age. It'll be stagnant until a new technology arrives. This is actually true of the grand symphony age as well. Those were much longer trends because instruments didn't change very quickly. But the power there was that they had so many in an orchestra to work with, plus they were normally for full dramatic productions/stories.

The second is Music now mostly exists for Emotional Resonance rather than Artistic Expression. It's not trying to be subtle about things. There's no depth. Most music is one of a few very basic emotional responses it's trying to elicit. There's still a lot of people doing good work around (I listen to more new music now than when I was in high school), but only the most pushed by the algorithm music is "popular".

I guess there's also a sub-point that the largest birth cohorts in Western countries are in their early 30s, so they aren't driving new music. Along with always being attempts to engineer popular music.

 

[CalciumAnimal]

There's actually still a lot of trends, but there's two things going on. The first is that there's not a lot of new areas to explore. New Music Trends always came with New Music Technology. And we're already 20+ years into the Home DAW Age. It'll be stagnant until a new technology arrives. This is actually true of the grand symphony age as well. Those were much longer trends because instruments didn't change very quickly. But the power there was that they had so many in an orchestra to work with, plus they were normally for full dramatic productions/stories.

The second is Music now mostly exists for Emotional Resonance rather than Artistic Expression. It's not trying to be subtle about things. There's no depth. Most music is one of a few very basic emotional responses it's trying to elicit. There's still a lot of people doing good work around (I listen to more new music now than when I was in high school), but only the most pushed by the algorithm music is "popular".

I guess there's also a sub-point that the largest birth cohorts in Western countries are in their early 30s, so they aren't driving new music. Along with always being attempts to engineer popular music.

look to non pop bands look to foreign bands Indie upcomers or the two dudes in their garage just trying to have fun.

that's where all the innovation is.

I Don't care how bad or good people like Taylor Swift Adele Beiber are their "Omnipresence" is just stupidly unhealthy trend chasing corpos will always push for it.

I find it amusing one of the most creative bands Ok GO seemingly crawled out of the woodwork with a new music video and it feels like a recycling of their better videos and songs.

 

[PleaseCheckYourReceipts]

look to non pop bands look to foreign bands Indie upcomers or the two dudes in their garage just trying to have fun.

that's where all the innovation is.

I Don't care how bad or good people like Taylor Swift Adele Beiber are their "Omnipresence" is just stupidly unhealthy trend chasing corpos will always push for it.

I find it amusing one of the most creative bands Ok GO seemingly crawled out of the woodwork with a new music video and it feels like a recycling of their better videos and songs.

It's a frankly more 1 dude with his computer and hiring a vocalist these days, lol. But as the Vocaloid Era has proved, it's about having a good idea and a sound go to with it. The rest can be filled in later.

The problem though is it's really hard to sustain a career in music. The actual industry has been in decline for a while. The big acts are living on the vapors of a previous era.

 

[thhrang]

Look at this tsundere.

 

[God's Strongest Wardog]

I think it's interesting that Billy Corgan somehow came out of the 90s music scene with his head still attached and not completely destroyed by drugs. Mostly a random aside, but I hadn't really thought about that until now.

Watching the wrestling he produces makes me think he didn't make it out of the 90's as well as you think.

 

[Aquatic Novellite]

Anyone who says tiktok ban is justified is a retard. Your talking heads are using the same talking points our censors do here. Tiktok ban is a slippery slope and will be eventually be used to deny service to domestic resources

Russification of America is the goal.

 

[Hff201]

Look at this tsundere.
View attachment 88335

"It's complicated"