"In my defense, I regret nothing. And nobody can control me because I am uncontrollable. I cannot be managed"Noir Vesper

Hololive General

NeneLOVE

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If they just want to stream and fuck around, Aqua and Fauna have more than proved they can be successful as long as they keep doing what they were in Holo under a different name, so I'm sure that has shown ones that don't want to go all in on the full entertainment stuff that they can leave and at least keep a decent portion of their fans.
Probably true.

The Yagoo tea party thing also corroborates this being an avalanche type deal, he knows better than all of us what his company is doing, and if it were just a person or management or the investors or whatever he could quickly focus on that. But the guy is instead asking each talent what their issues are and what they would like to see improved, that means he either doesn't know or that each talent has their own reasoning and they are simply leaving because they aren't afraid to do so anymore.

We could very well be entering an era of Holo with a much higher turnover rate (as in 1-5 talents leaving per year with their empty slots being refilled by a new gen in JP/EN), where people come in and leave if they just want a quick boost in popularity or regret joining and stay if they are workaholics that wanna reach for the top or are so chill that they have no ambition and don't mind doing their mandated shit for an easy paycheck.

Edit: Of course a high turnover rate is not good for Cover, not just because of PR (although after enough of the new status quo people will stop caring) but mostly because of lost IP, Cover has very clearly been trying to grow their existing IP because merch sales are so damn profitable, cycling through different IP every year is the opposite of this vision. So I can also see some drastic measures go up soon if this prediction is true, the dreaded investors are definitely the opposite of happy right now if we look at the stock price.
 
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TKN_Lurker

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Joined:  Dec 19, 2023
TOTAL CHUMBUD DEATH

On a much serious note, I've seen this graduation coming from a mile already for the longest time. I just didn't expect it to happen so shortly after Mumei's. While it doesn't prove that Cover itself is at fault, I'm still not entirely convinced that the company didn't contribute in some way to where we are now. Regardless, as much as I like Hololive, I liked their talents more. I'm not sure if I'll ever have the same drive to care anymore after losing so many Hololivers I enjoyed watching in EN. I just want things to go back to how they were dammit...
:depressedtako:
 
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Not Important

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Joined:  Oct 8, 2023
My third idea is the mixed bag explanation, in which there were a handful of unhappy talents that all got inspired or pushed to quit by each other, in this case the true reasoning for quitting could be many things, from health issues, to project cancellation to burnout to wanting to advance their career. Which is honestly the most likely to me. I have begun believing that Aqua in particular broke something within the internal culture of the company, maybe people were afraid to leave before because of peer pressure or they thought they wouldn't succeed without Holo, and her leaving was just the push many of these girls needed to finally pull the trigger.
I agree here. I think Aqua's graduation had opened flood gates and effectively triggered domino effect, where talents who previously would have stayed, saw they can maintain their popularity without Holo and without responsibilities associated with it. Both Shion and Gura somehow stayed around, even if they were checked out for few last years, but both decided to quit at the same time? I don't believe in such coincidences. So its most likely this + aforementioned change in policy, whatever that is.

Its also aligns with a recent Suisei's suggestion to have separate auditions for people who just want to stream and people who want to do idol activities.

We could very well be entering an era of Holo with a much higher turnover rate (as in 1-5 talents leaving per year with their empty slots being refilled by a new gen in JP/EN), where people come in and leave if they just want a quick boost in popularity or regret joining and stay if they are workaholics that wanna reach for the top or are so chill that they have no ambition and don't mind doing their mandated shit for an easy paycheck.
So, basically playing Magni card.
Didn't work out well for him, but that's due to how different his output as Lando was from Magni, I guess.

I don't like Holo becoming "breeding farm" for successful indies, since for me its more like a collective of comrades, rather than just random workers, I think Cover should understand that with such approach they won't make much money, since they will lose IP left and right. Unless they are OK with being akin to Nijisanji and even Niji for the most part is not like that.
 

NeneLOVE

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I don't like Holo becoming "breeding farm" for successful indies and I think Cover should understand that with such approach they won't make much money, since they will lose IP left and right. Unless they are OK with being akin to Nijisanji and even Niji for the most part is not like that.
It's bad for IP and goes against the "Idol" mantra but I could see people staying comfortably for 2 years and then being given the choice to leave or stay, 2 years basically comprises the entire lifespan of a Holo anyway, they have their 3D, had at least 1 Holofes appearance and after that most of them don't really grow or do much unless they are super grindy like the top 15 or so.

Loosing some people out of each gen does not mean there won't be talents who will remain for much longer though. You have to really consider that before 2024 Holo had VERY FEW graduations, to the point that they made that into an industry standard and something to strive for.
 

Hff201

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You could argue other shit like perms (which have gotten better not worse) or project cancellation but unless that got extremely bad I cannot see it setting off so many people at once so quickly.
Personally I'd speculate that projects falling through is a big thing that's been wearing away at everyone for a while, and there's probably been a straw that broke the camel's back recently. Seeing their own projects they've put their time and likely money into getting scrapped is disheartening in itself, seeing their friends dealing with the same shit probably makes them wonder why they even bother. This isn't just happening in a vacuum, all the talents are probably well aware of how many almost-finished songs/music videos/animations etc. are just rotting away in the vault right now never to see the light of day; working in an environment like that is just going to kill any aspiration and depending on the talent encourage them to either play it safe, or check out entirely and graduate.

But I think it's just one symptom of a problem Cover runs into time and time again that isn't even their fault - they're the market leader and have millions of eyes on them, a great deal of which are people with traditional Japanese principles who want to see every i dotted and t crossed, meaning Cover needs to avoid public scandals at any cost. Every yab comes with more bureaucracy since they can't afford a repeat of the Capcom video takedowns, the China/Taiwan shit, Rushia's highly-publicised termination, Mel gossiping to outsiders, whatever the fuck Gamma did etc., and over time that just becomes unsustainable in a way that trickles down to the talents themselves. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if Pekora's Pokémon yab the other day has led to some kind of new guideline about streaming pre-owned games or whatever.

As much as I harp on about the whole "talent freedom" schtick, when they're in a situation where everything they do needs to go through a 20-step checklist else they risk their stream being taken down and being yelled at by random nips for acting dishonourabry toward the bingbingwahoo man, the concept of being able to just pick out whatever game they feel like playing that day and going live without any worries probably sounds incredibly enticing.
 

smartestkidontheshortbus

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As much as I harp on about the whole "talent freedom" schtick, when they're in a situation where everything they do needs to go through a 20-step checklist else they risk their stream being taken down and being yelled at by random nips for acting dishonourabry toward the bingbingwahoo man, the concept of being able to just pick out whatever game they feel like playing that day and going live without any worries probably sounds incredibly enticing.
Don't forget the ability to just say that a game sucks dick.
 

NeneLOVE

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Personally I'd speculate that projects falling through is a big thing that's been wearing away at everyone for a while, and there's probably been a straw that broke the camel's back recently. Seeing their own projects they've put their time and likely money into getting scrapped is disheartening in itself, seeing their friends dealing with the same shit probably makes them wonder why they even bother. This isn't just happening in a vacuum, all the talents are probably well aware of how many almost-finished songs/music videos/animations etc. are just rotting away in the vault right now never to see the light of day; working in an environment like that is just going to kill any aspiration and depending on the talent encourage them to either play it safe, or check out entirely and graduate.

But I think it's just one symptom of a problem Cover runs into time and time again that isn't even their fault - they're the market leader and have millions of eyes on them, a great deal of which are people with traditional Japanese principles who want to see every i dotted and t crossed, meaning Cover needs to avoid public scandals at any cost. Every yab comes with more bureaucracy since they can't afford a repeat of the Capcom video takedowns, the China/Taiwan shit, Rushia's highly-publicised termination, Mel gossiping to outsiders, whatever the fuck Gamma did etc., and over time that just becomes unsustainable in a way that trickles down to the talents themselves. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if Pekora's Pokémon yab the other day has led to some kind of new guideline about streaming pre-owned games or whatever.

As much as I harp on about the whole "talent freedom" schtick, when they're in a situation where everything they do needs to go through a 20-step checklist else they risk their stream being taken down and being yelled at by random nips for acting dishonourabry toward the bingbingwahoo man, the concept of being able to just pick out whatever game they feel like playing that day and going live without any worries probably sounds incredibly enticing.
It has always been a balancing act between restrictions and opportunities, I think it was Mio or something that said as much. If you just wanna be a twitch streamer with a gimmick then Holo is probably not for you, but they provide opportunities that nobody else does. Once Holo either can't provide said opportunities or somebody else manages to do so as well with less strings attached then Holo is very much going to be forced to change or die.
 

ValkyrieAce

in a toxic relationship with IRyS
Joined:  Jan 28, 2023
Personally I'd speculate that projects falling through is a big thing that's been wearing away at everyone for a while, and there's probably been a straw that broke the camel's back recently. Seeing their own projects they've put their time and likely money into getting scrapped is disheartening in itself, seeing their friends dealing with the same shit probably makes them wonder why they even bother. This isn't just happening in a vacuum, all the talents are probably well aware of how many almost-finished songs/music videos/animations etc. are just rotting away in the vault right now never to see the light of day; working in an environment like that is just going to kill any aspiration and depending on the talent encourage them to either play it safe, or check out entirely and graduate.

But I think it's just one symptom of a problem Cover runs into time and time again that isn't even their fault - they're the market leader and have millions of eyes on them, a great deal of which are people with traditional Japanese principles who want to see every i dotted and t crossed, meaning Cover needs to avoid public scandals at any cost. Every yab comes with more bureaucracy since they can't afford a repeat of the Capcom video takedowns, the China/Taiwan shit, Rushia's highly-publicised termination, Mel gossiping to outsiders, whatever the fuck Gamma did etc., and over time that just becomes unsustainable in a way that trickles down to the talents themselves. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if Pekora's Pokémon yab the other day has led to some kind of new guideline about streaming pre-owned games or whatever.

As much as I harp on about the whole "talent freedom" schtick, when they're in a situation where everything they do needs to go through a 20-step checklist else they risk their stream being taken down and being yelled at by random nips for acting dishonourabry toward the bingbingwahoo man, the concept of being able to just pick out whatever game they feel like playing that day and going live without any worries probably sounds incredibly enticing.
Still don't quite buy the "projects falling through" thing when plenty of other members are so productive. Sure there will be some roadblocks, but it seems like most can eventually be pushed through. It just depends on if they're willing to work and push things through. C-list Holo members can put out albums and do multiple 3D lives but Gura can't? I think that's all on her. Hell, new members are covering fucking Beatles songs now!
 

Tubedude

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Joined:  May 10, 2023
Still don't quite buy the "projects falling through" thing when plenty of other members are so productive. Sure there will be some roadblocks, but it seems like most can eventually be pushed through. It just depends on if they're willing to work and push things through. C-list Holo members can put out albums and do multiple 3D lives but Gura can't? I think that's all on her. Hell, new members are covering fucking Beatles songs now!
It can be a combo of a company and talent issue. Mori and Kiara for instance will fight through the roadblocks to eventually put something out there. Other talents probably push too, but maybe not as much. With Gura I could easily see her stopping at the earlier roadblocks. She seems to be a more "in the moment" planner, and when procedure or required work stretch things beyond the "moment" she loses the drive needed to get things done, and then the amount of dead projects may have dried up her desire to regularly stream.
 

Aka Split

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Mumei spewed out the same stock reason as everyone else, but she is so undeniably sick and unable to do the basic functions of her job that there is simply no way her primary reason for leaving was not health issues.
Mumei also complained about company changes roughly a year ago, how they used to have certain deadlines, but then things suddenly changed to much tighter deadlines. So something you had a month to do before, now you have a week and a half. That is easily a 'disagreement with management' or 'change in company direction', but one that also put extra strain on her and her voice, exacerbating her health problems. She could have easily gotten away with just saying health problems, but she added that in there, so it means something.
Saying 'disagreement with management means nothing' is just as stupid as saying 'disagreement with management means everything'. There's obviously something there even if we can't be 100% sure what it is for each individual person (since it's likely different specifics for each of them).
Yeah, likewise I think they put up an ultimatum for non-streamers: sort your shit out or leave. Mumei couldn't sort her health issues (if it is possible) and Shion and Gura didn't care to do so. I don't think it is a coincidence all three graduations are schelduled before May. Looking at it from a corporate point of view, they are cleaning house from "lazy (in their view)" people, even if it costs them reputation and breeds rats.

I don't like it: while I understand that if you were hired for a job, you must work, at the same time, streaming is not exactly your run of the mill 9/5 job. It requires drive and passion, not to mention combining its all with idoling and you get a recipe for a burn out, which we could see with other girls. Such constraints might force some girls to quit, even, if before they wouldn't think of it.
While this could be true, it would also be utterly retarded. No one gets mad at Cover for not firing someone, but they definitely do get mad when someone leaves (see: every graduation and termination ever vs. how much hate mail they get for allowing Ayame to stay). There is absolutely zero upside to having their talents leave, it's bad PR and it's lost IP. Keeping Gura on retainer costs you practically nothing, but pushing her out (either actively or passively) loses you everything. It's been said over and over with these sorts of topics: this isn't Moneyball where you hire and fire, pump and dump, cull the herd, etc. it's all about the people and if your talents aren't happy, that'll kill the company.
TL;DR, it's in Cover's best interest to keep talents (even inactive ones) as long as they can, so any form of intentional culling would be retarded.
 

Hff201

Pippa Fan, Failed Normalfriend
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Still don't quite buy the "projects falling through" thing when plenty of other members are so productive. Sure there will be some roadblocks, but it seems like most can eventually be pushed through. It just depends on if they're willing to work and push things through. C-list Holo members can put out albums and do multiple 3D lives but Gura can't? I think that's all on her. Hell, new members are covering fucking Beatles songs now!
The English-language streaming-only covers are an absurdly easy task (relatively speaking) since covering music is less about permission and more about paying royalties after the fact (which can be easily automated these days anyway), plus they're not putting out music videos so they don't even need a sync licence for them.

There are times where Gura has just lost interest in something quicker than she probably should have (she wanted to put out a rearranged version of Queen by Kanaria, got an absurdly expensive quote for the instrumental, and dropped it rather than shopping around for better offers), but then there's stuff like the Full Colour situation where it's hard to see that being her fault. The song's fully written, she's shown she's capable of performing it, but the actual record never materialised because... reasons? And we only know about that because we heard the song in one of the concerts; it's not hard to imagine there are more situations like it that we don't know about because they were dropped before being announced publicly.
 
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NeneLOVE

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Saying 'disagreement with management means nothing' is just as stupid as saying 'disagreement with management means everything'. There's obviously something there even if we can't be 100% sure what it is for each individual person (since it's likely different specifics for each of them).
I said primary, not only. Nobody has said that the stock reason doesn't mean anything, it's a stock reason as PR to hide the true reason.
 

Mega Sapling

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Hmmmmm
1744785362820.png
 

TKN_Lurker

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Hff201

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PleaseCheckYourReceipts

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"Disagreements with management is a bit of a catch-all that covers most reasons that (I fucking lost the rest of the sentence, but I think it was) someone would want to leave" -Calli right now

This kills the dramafag

It's most likely a separation clause line in the contracts to activate durable rights to certain parts of the IP. I'm also pretty sure it's just translated weirdly. It's going to be in every graduation going forward. It also puts the blame on Cover and away from the girls.

OH WOW WOULD YOU LOOK AT THAT?!? IT'S ALMOST LIKE I FUCKING SAID THE EXACT SAME THING 200000 TIMES BUT PEOPLE REFUSE TO FACE THE OBVIOUSNESS OF WHAT IS JUST ANOTHER WORDING OF "CREATIVE DIFFERENCES"

Do you guys really think all of the talents, with different personalities, reasons for leaving and experiences in the company would say the exact same thing like robots? Are you daft?

You. are. not. going. to. be. told. the. actual. fucking. reason. why. EVER.

Except for the terminations, it's always because everyone is tired of the grind. Fauna clearly had an actual issue that had bothered her for a long while (I'm pretty certain at this point it's going to be Character Clothes/Models; I think she wanted to use alt-costumes like IronMouse but that wasn't going to work in Cover.)

Mio already confirmed this 4 months ago. If hag wolf of all people can't convince them, then they can have fun with their rrats.

Life moves on, something no one wants to ever admit. So blaming X, Y or Z just feels better.

Holy shit she is. Now if only she'd start playing better games I might start watching her again.

Kronii is low-key probably the best horror streamer around. The issue is that it isn't the games but the way she bounces off of them. That Inzoi stream...wow.

My reasoning for the first 2 is that this is hitting both EN and JP, if it was only one branch I could believe a manager being the issue but we know for a fact that the branches are managed separately, so low-tier managers or even branch managers couldn't be making people from multiple branches quit, that leaves upper management, but that is similarly unlikely because those guys do not interact with the talent directly, it would be pretty hard for them to harass people to the point of quitting if they aren't directly messing with them.

So a reason which hits multiple talents in multiple branches must be a company-wide policy change, of which the most likely to affect people is gonna be the revenue split, the streaming hours comes second simply because of the amount of low activity talents dropping. You could argue other shit like perms (which have gotten better not worse) or project cancellation but unless that got extremely bad I cannot see it setting off so many people at once so quickly.

My third idea is the mixed bag explanation, in which there were a handful of unhappy talents that all got inspired or pushed to quit by each other, in this case the true reasoning for quitting could be many things, from health issues, to project cancellation to burnout to wanting to advance their career. Which is honestly the most likely to me. I have begun believing that Aqua in particular broke something within the internal culture of the company, maybe people were afraid to leave before because of peer pressure or they thought they wouldn't succeed without Holo, and her leaving was just the push many of these girls needed to finally pull the trigger.

There is a lifecycle to a Media Career. In Western "Label" music, it's 4 years. That's generally what we should expect for a big corporate Vtuber that doesn't fail in the 1st year. The fact that Cover has created a system with actual "lifers" is the more interesting aspect. Though it's going to be noticeable how the English ones are always going to be more likely to leave because they're physically disconnected from everyone else. Notice how many are now congregating in Japan, so they can have the social aspect along with the Idol part of things. This isn't an accident.

Kronii is the exception. She's never leaving, but will probably complain about it every week on her PL for the next decade.

If they just want to stream and fuck around, Aqua and Fauna have more than proved they can be successful as long as they keep doing what they were in Holo under a different name, so I'm sure that has shown ones that don't want to go all in on the full entertainment stuff that they can leave and at least keep a decent portion of their fans.

This was known because Kson is still making great money, but I think Aqua leaving did open the floodgates. No one wanted to be the first to graduate in a long time, but once the Onion decided to go it changed the dynamics for those that probably should have graduated a couple of years ago.


Probably true.

The Yagoo tea party thing also corroborates this being an avalanche type deal, he knows better than all of us what his company is doing, and if it were just a person or management or the investors or whatever he could quickly focus on that. But the guy is instead asking each talent what their issues are and what they would like to see improved, that means he either doesn't know or that each talent has their own reasoning and they are simply leaving because they aren't afraid to do so anymore.

We could very well be entering an era of Holo with a much higher turnover rate (as in 1-5 talents leaving per year with their empty slots being refilled by a new gen in JP/EN), where people come in and leave if they just want a quick boost in popularity or regret joining and stay if they are workaholics that wanna reach for the top or are so chill that they have no ambition and don't mind doing their mandated shit for an easy paycheck.

Edit: Of course a high turnover rate is not good for Cover, not just because of PR (although after enough of the new status quo people will stop caring) but mostly because of lost IP, Cover has very clearly been trying to grow their existing IP because merch sales are so damn profitable, cycling through different IP every year is the opposite of this vision. So I can also see some drastic measures go up soon if this prediction is true, the dreaded investors are definitely the opposite of happy right now if we look at the stock price.

I was just thinking the other day we should expect at least a couple of graduations every year going forward. Hololive is out of the Startup Days, so streamers moving on after 5+ years is just a given. The drought of graduations probably kept things bottled up because no one wanted to really be the first to move. After the Onion did, it changed everyone's thinking. It was simply time, which was mostly Chloe's explanation as well.

We'll get graduations every year going forward. The drought is never happening again.
 

Aka Split

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frz

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Moona managed to put out an entire album with songs in 3 languages.
Edit: Moona's dad died when she was away for Holosummer. She still manages to stream.
While being married and managing a cafe
Even if deadlines are a bit more annoying than before. Holo is still a good place for someone well past the idol/streamer age to continue working as an idol/streamer
I made an observation before that korone specifically streams before lunch and after dinner. She could (not saying she is) theoretically manage a housewife life cooking 2 meals a day and taking care of her kids with that schedule despite streaming twice a day and being one of the more hard-working streamers in holo. (And there are people who put in 3 times the hours korone does, like koyori)

Another JP, actually married, have a 2nd idol career. Still manage to stream consistently.

Unrelated but speaking of streaming hours, strangely enough dev_is has 2 gen, regloss whose every member ranked at holo's bottom in term of hours streamed and flowglow which actually having people saturating the top. Particularly, Vivi dethroned Koyori and Raden at almost the bottom, only above Gura, Suisei, Ayame, a graduated Chloe & and Iroha who literally couldn't speak (for the first 3 month of 2025)
 
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grenskul

Spergin' in the rain
Joined:  Nov 29, 2022

Cptn Snshn

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So sex with you is so boring that it's more interesting to read schizoid posts on the internet?:kroniibitchclap:
I refuse to entertain women, that would be gay.
 

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