The Offkai 2024 Blacklisting Debacle (and other possible scandals)

I've never been to a convention and don't understand the appeal, and I am not going to drop money into a trip nor san francisco's local economy either, so offkai's conduct doesn't directly affect me. It does seem like fans like these kinds of things though.

Arguing about whether it's appropriate to talk about problems like this is a time waster. In any conflict, the troll who says 'both sides are a problem' in response to someone being abused and complaining about it, is siphoning valuable energy and time.

If vtuber conventions are important, then either employ strategy to make the current ones behave appropriately, or make a better one (edit: and make the other lose). If they aren't important, then don't waste time thinking about them. If they are important, then saying "you should stop" is ban-worthy, and saying "I'm tired" is just noise.

I think its wise to be smart/strategic about how you expend energy if you decide it's worth fighting. Wasting time and energy is why they do things like using a couple of cars to cause traffic slowdowns for thousands of people. If your strategy is to endlessly argue with people disagreeing in some niche corner of the internet, you are losing.

The most important thing to remember is if your strategy involves other people, you must be mindful of infiltration and betrayal, and bake in safeguards, because the opposing force is more than just low-iq npcs.

Mumberthrax said:

I've never been to a convention and don't understand the appeal, and I am not going to drop money into a trip nor san francisco's local economy either, so offkai's conduct doesn't directly affect me. It does seem like fans like these kinds of things though.

Arguing about whether it's appropriate to talk about problems like this is a time waster. In any conflict, the troll who says 'both sides are a problem' in response to someone being abused and complaining about it, is siphoning valuable energy and time.

If vtuber conventions are important, then either employ strategy to make the current ones behave appropriately, or make a better one. If they aren't important, then don't waste time thinking about them. If they are important, then saying "you should stop" is ban-worthy, and saying "I'm tired" is just noise.

I think its wise to be smart/strategic about how you expend energy if you decide it's worth fighting. Wasting time and energy is why they do things like using a couple of cars to cause traffic slowdowns for thousands of people. If your strategy is to endlessly argue with people disagreeing in some niche corner of the internet, you are losing.

The most important thing to remember is if your strategy involves other people, you must be mindful of infiltration and betrayal, and bake in safeguards, because the opposing force is more than just low-iq npcs.

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-Sun Tzu, The art of war

Nenélove said:

-Sun Tzu, The art of war

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i want a reaction sticker that conveys something like embarrassment and identifying oneself, the one reacting, as foolish in some way. none of the existing ones quite work.
I'm going on little sleep and probably shouldn't comment on stuff like this.

famous artist pipkun said:

This is line of thought disproven when Trump came down the escalator in 2015. How did the silent majority get behind trump? the great meme war was a real propaganda war and there were real consequences (ricky vaughn MVP) for participants. like the people you say are brainwashed, the pro trump side appealed to the human condition: their concerns, their financial situation, their nostalgia, their ideals. no one expected Trump to win, the MSM and the uniparty pushed their talking points hard.

so how did the silent majority back trump? his supporters were arguing online and irl and the fence sitters and "unsure/i don't know"s chose a side. The shit works and the online places that contributed to it were dismantled for it.

you're in the culture whether you acknowledge it or not.

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I don't think it disproves it. The two key things that are missing in the culture war for entertainment is a strong leader and someone within the establishment, Trump represented those two things which is why it was different. Without those things it's basically impossible to accomplish any meaningful change and most of the victories claimed are a result of self-sabotage. That's why gamergate 2 was just a meme, there was no central rallying point that funneled the disparate opinions, as a consequence anything marginally tanned supposedly has sweet baby taint making a mockery of any real reason for discontent.
I still believe there's merit in keeping anti-SJW sentiment alive, if only so it stays in the back of people's minds, but I don't believe it will lead to genuine change without the former. At least in vtubing we can count on the general disinterest from Japanese markets to engage with that rhetoric and one of the few good things about Twitch is that we partially have "leader" and "establishment" level entities in streaming that preach common sense in the form of people like Asmon and Charlie (but even then they're beholden to Twitch decision-making and they're ultimately consumers too, not creators)

BW042 said:

I don't think it disproves it. The two key things that are missing in the culture war for entertainment is a strong leader and someone within the establishment, Trump represented those two things which is why it was different. Without those things it's basically impossible to accomplish any meaningful change and most of the victories claimed are a result of self-sabotage. That's why gamergate 2 was just a meme, there was no central rallying point that funneled the disparate opinions, as a consequence anything marginally tanned supposedly has sweet baby taint making a mockery of any real reason for discontent.
I still believe there's merit in keeping anti-SJW sentiment alive, if only so it stays in the back of people's minds, but I don't believe it will lead to genuine change without the former. At least in vtubing we can count on the general disinterest from Japanese markets to engage with that rhetoric and one of the few good things about Twitch is that we partially have "leader" and "establishment" level entities in streaming that preach common sense in the form of people like Asmon and Charlie (but even then they're beholden to Twitch decision-making and they're ultimately consumers too, not creators)

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if we narrow the cw to entertainment, youre probably right. alternative media is usually super gay or super gay evangelical. otoh, you dont really need a leader in entertainment because you, as an individual, can create your own entertainment and hand it out to people. unless youre a zoomer and never heard of a zine.

Just a repost from some anon on /pcg/ don't know if it's been posted here or someplace else, haven't really looked into it that much and this is the offkai thread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starbound/comments/1uueka/the_starrybound_mod_has_been_pulled_from_our/
https://github.com/Crashdoom
https://github.com/ConventionCatCorp
https://concat.app/
Edit: So it seems offkai runs through concat, which is operated by supposedly some furry hacker guy. He was probably a kid when he did this but man it's kind of wild. Didn't fully read but lightly scanned through the reddit page about it.
Archive that links offkai to concat.

JMForte said:

Just a repost from some anon on /pcg/ don't know if it's been posted here or someplace else, haven't really looked into it that much and this is the offkai thread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starbound/comments/1uueka/the_starrybound_mod_has_been_pulled_from_our/
https://github.com/Crashdoom
https://github.com/ConventionCatCorp
https://concat.app/
Edit: So it seems offkai runs through concat, which is operated by supposedly some furry hacker guy. He was probably a kid when he did this but man it's kind of wild. Didn't fully read but lightly scanned through the reddit page about it.
Archive that links offkai to concat.

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Wow, that's a great find actually. Dev-hosted service with payment processing from serial grifter/c00lh4Xor, what could go wrong indeed?

Archives for the above four links.

This is obviously a reach but I'm listening to Proctor's stream and can't not put this intrusive thought into words - I doubt OffKai would have any super-sensitive information on any corpo talents who've attended, but they likely have privileged access to some information about them the general public don't - which could be used to connect the dots and dig up further personal details. We now know they have this furry involved who has proven he is willing to expose privileged information he has. We also know there are people who dislike Pippa and may have some personal hangups with Phase because the fish didn't compromise with them last year.

We might have some more suspects on the Phase deepdoxes.

Since my previous post is actually somewhat objectively helpful I'm going to make another one here to separate out my opinion.

vtuber misread my comment reeeeeeee



Proctor, you might be quite confident that you aren't running some IP-grabbing scheme, but Nym's concerns aren't unfounded. Disregarding those concerns and making girlfriend jokes is not the way to handle that. If TVA has discovered something of interest, it's worth attempting to make the information more easily accessible, not necessarily for everyone, but definitely for the very targeted audience you're trying to inform.

Hff201 said:

We now know they have this furry involved who has proven he is willing to expose privileged information he has

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This all hinges on long lost forum logs with same IP. Might be his boyfriend, there is a lot of deniability.

Hff201 said:

doubt OffKai would have any super-sensitive information on any corpo talents who've attended, but they likely have privileged access to some information about them the general public don't

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i don't think so, at most they have mangement info, holo is pretty airtight and for talents it gonna be "here's stream link, start it at X o'clock, be on immediate response, obey people on screen"

Planetary Bombardment said:

Archives for the above four links.

https://archive.is/jXZzA

https://archive.is/nPUx0

https://archive.is/erXrL

https://archive.is/yzfJi

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Thanks, was trying to grab archives but it was stuck loading after I did one.

MerelyTourist said:

This all hinges on long lost forum logs with same IP. Might be his boyfriend, there is a lot of deniability.

i don't think so, at most they have mangement info, holo is pretty airtight and for talents it gonna be "here's stream link, start it at X o'clock, be on immediate response, obey people on screen"

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Phase isn't Holo.

Hff201 said:

This is obviously a reach but I'm listening to Proctor's stream and can't not put this intrusive thought into words - I doubt OffKai would have any super-sensitive information on any corpo talents who've attended, but they likely have privileged access to some information about them the general public don't - which could be used to connect the dots and dig up further personal details. We now know they have this furry involved who has proven he is willing to expose privileged information he has. We also know there are people who dislike Pippa and may have some personal hangups with Phase because the fish didn't compromise with them last year.

We might have some more suspects on the Phase deepdoxes.

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Better send this findings to Fishman. If this is true then Offkai is SUS AF. Anyone who associates with them could be doxxed or worse, hacked and have their private info used by this individual.

Nigel Nigerman said:

Better send this findings to Fishman. If this is true then Offkai is SUS AF. Anyone who associates with them could be doxxed or worse, hacked and have their private info used by this individual.

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Even if Offkai never intended to do anything malicious the problem with all of these conventions is always that they are ran on shoe string budgets and bad faith actors can find themselves in positions of power that create compromises to opsec. I'm hoping that Phase, and other corpos, are smart enough to act as the middle man buffer between Offkai and the vtubers so that if anything is leaked it's just standard corpo info, not the vtuber info. Now small indies, they're potentially fucked.

Nigel Nigerman said:

Better send this findings to Fishman. If this is true then Offkai is SUS AF.

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Realticule said:

I'm hoping that Phase, and other corpos, are smart enough to act as the middle man buffer between Offkai and the vtubers so that if anything is leaked it's just standard corpo info, not the vtuber info.

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Allow me to engage in a bit of Armchair Fishman, with the understanding that I of course have exactly as much experience with running a vtuber company as I do designing firearms and that we are all merely playing pretend.

I think I'd power through OffKai as normal, get all the money and sales and advertisement locked in, and after everything is over and the troublesome volunteers have returned to whatever commiefornian reddit hole they crawled out of ask for a sit-down with the convention's organizers and pose some difficult questions.

If they want their convention to continue to grow they're going to need to adopt far more professional attitudes, and spend a little money on software that isn't a furry skid's pet project.

Realticule said:

Even if Offkai never intended to do anything malicious the problem with all of these conventions is always that they are ran on shoe string budgets and bad faith actors can find themselves in positions of power that create compromises to opsec. I'm hoping that Phase, and other corpos, are smart enough to act as the middle man buffer between Offkai and the vtubers so that if anything is leaked it's just standard corpo info, not the vtuber info. Now small indies, they're potentially fucked.

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My main feeling toward this is that I can't trust the furfag guy to be professional. While the actual legal requirements can vary from place to place and I won't claim to have knowledge on the subject, I do know reputable workplaces will typically only provide individuals with the absolute bare minimum amount of information they need to do their job, to reduce the likelihood of anything sensitive leaking - but here we have the kind of person who made everyone an admin on a forum (allowing them to log into each other's accounts, access each other's IPs etc.) for the bants. All while leaving a paper trail that follows him to his current-day employment. If he doesn't care about his own privacy and security, why should we trust him to care about anyone else's?

As I said before I highly doubt they're going to have anything too sensitive on file about vtubers who're just calling in for meet and greets etc., but as we've seen before doxing someone is like piecing together a jigsaw, and just a handful of extra pieces could help a malicious individual figure out what the full picture is. With someone as laissez-faire (as a generous description) when it comes to privacy heading the thing, I don't think it's unrealistic to expect a gossip chain to make its way to the volunteers and possibly outside of the convention entirely. The people with probably the most to worry about are the vtubers who attend in person, since they'll have more details on file from buying their tickets.

I think dragging up some reddit post from 10 years ago and using it as evidence this furry is gonna dox people is a pretty big reach

Planetary Bombardment said:

I think I'd power through OffKai as normal, get all the money and sales and advertisement locked in, and after everything is over and the troublesome volunteers have returned to whatever commiefornian reddit hole they crawled out of ask for a sit-down with the convention's organizers and pose some difficult questions.

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Pretty much, and as Fishman has thrown around money to buy booths for everyone, he could probably buy them a real staff and CRM to run the thing in a none retarded way. That's not cheap, but having exceptional control of the biggest vtuber con would give him benefits of its own.

I don't think fish gives a shit about a couple of indies and dramafags getting into a slapfight with commiefornian interns unless it seriously affects his earnings from the event or PR. If he's smart I mean. Idk why you guys are championing him likes he's some sort of "based" hero who is gonna fix offkai, I wouldn't be surprised if fish is completely uninterested in politics and only allows the shit that goes on in phase because they don't get cancelled for it and it actually makes him more money.

Reminder that this con has been openly infested by the woke brigade since the beginning, kirsche getting banned didn't suddenly make them go hard left and I am very much sure the organizers and plenty of the attendees are left-leaning to various degrees.